00:02
steve Chris here we are again cheers cheers my friend cheers hey look at that that mug it's a nice one eh why don't I have one of those because I only have one well that's I can get you a Cubase one that's it i have one for you you probably have lots of those so how's it going it's good i was like true story i'm I'm on the Sweetwater site as we're starting okay go ahead cuz I'm trying to figure out why your your thing is on one side and my thing is on the other and I'm trying to figure out I was just sitting here as while you were
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starting all this thing trying to figure out whose is right and according to Sweetwater mine is right oh okay oh look at that so Sweet Water has the answer sweetwater does it has a lot of answers some very very expensive okay so I'm going to have to invest into something to fix that one up yeah no or just just flip it i'm Yeah I'm lazy that's a good reason your honesty it's like you know I don't have time for this one very direct that's good i'll I'll keep it wrong yeah i mean if I found out mine was wrong I
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imagine I would have just had the same response probably yes knowing he's like "Okay sure i'm wrong." You know but how does it sound well so what do you want to talk about today uh today's topic per my understanding from breakfast a few minutes ago is uh drums drums and I think the the idea is uh two two episodes two a two-parter I think that's called in the biz sure yeah cliffhanger uh and drums you you being a drummer and engineer yes uh is was to me something that seemed like an interesting conversation and I guess part one in my
01:48
mind is let's let's talk about recording drums as a drum performer of both sides of the glass okay uh and then and then next episode being let's let's mix the drums that we rhetorically recorded in this episode okay i like that verbally verbal recording so I'll let you lead because that that that's as far as I got and then I just ate more of my omelette but okay to me so now it's all on me then usually you've got your own mug dude hey funny enough I still have one of your mugs oh it's amazing the studio
02:19
demo those are vintage i know those have gone vintage since the the closure those are worth tens of Canadian pennies uh so I guess the here here's a question that pops into my head right out of the gate so as a drum recordist recorder recording person and a drummer you can answer this one unbiased how important is each of those pieces in the process so if I've got a a crap drummer with a crap kit and all the fancy gear in a beautiful room versus the converse or the inverse whichever one of those words means the
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opposite that's a good start that's good thank you i like that i'm learning English too dude you're doing well thank you you're doing well just like continue this right here keep learning versus like beautiful beautiful drummer beautiful kit in in a mediocre recording environment like which where would you go first given those two options i would go with the best drummer playing the crappy drum okay okay the performance sorry so Okay okay so I guess we got three pieces now you just separated two of them so you've
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got That's what I do man you've got a med you got a you've got a good or a bad drummer you've got a good or a bad kit and you've got a good or a bad recording environment cables mics etc yes okay okay first good drummer second a good sounding kit okay and then gear and then gear cuz you can like for me Yeah i I can go a long way with a cheap pair of microphones yes on a good sounding kit yes with a really good drummer and And history bears this out a bit right like some of our very very favorite Yeah albums like when you hear
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the story of how it was actually done like we rented this thing and it was by a train track and but we had bottom you know or whatever right so it's there there are recorded that drums in my living room you know yeah or in this from the top of the stairwell and these stories right okay so now you've got your pretty good drummer you got your pretty good kit you've got your pretty good setup uh performance obviously is a big big part of it obviously definitely okay so now do Do I want to be able to
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have an amazing performance or do I want to be able to edit amazingly i would rather have an amazing performance okay you know if I can avoid editing or at least keep the editing part as low as possible I'm good with that same for anything for that matter how much are you editing drums these days it depends it depends on the production you know if I'm recording producing a pop song where there's like drum loops on top of real drums acoustic drums um now I would love to have like these drums to be as tight as possible
05:08
you know to to uh to play well with the drum loops so we don't get a bunch of flams and stuff like that you know so yeah in that case I would edit a lot um and sometimes it depends like you know sometimes a drum feels going to be laidback or maybe too laidback or rush i think the the worst is a rushy drum feel or rushy groove i can live with laidback actually laidback kind of added some feel at some point you know like a nice solid groove and then the the drum g the drum feel comes it's like it's just a
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bit laidback i don't mind that and most of the time I might not even touch it you know so it all depends right yeah so yeah and so okay so if you took uh the last year's worth of mixes you've done Yes what percent of those did you apply actual quantization to regardless of how great it was like full quantization like like there's edits there's edits like oh he rushed or Yeah or or she had a better fill those edits but versus like just tighten her up across the board kind of moves i don't do that a lot to be honest even
06:18
in pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop yes yes yes like I said you know if it's linked to a drum groove that a drum loop for example that's like super tight super quantise in that case I want to match it is it ever tight enough in pop do you ever go great or do you always tighten it a bit it's a case by case thing what about you I I find myself tightening a little bit just before I even start okay and that's for me and and part of that is just like and a bit
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not like it's a 10act it's like just putting a little bit of autotune on the vocal before you start even working right it just it just removes a bunch of little nitpicky things right out of the gate okay you know that I don't do okay that's interesting that's interesting sometimes I won't but typically I find I want something tight i mainly listen to the feel to begin with does it work with the band is the band following the the groove the drum groove you know um and if it works and it sits well it's like
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okay I'm good that's a nice grooving drum performance um but most of the time I'm gonna like you know do some manual edits mainly on field and stuff like that you know or maybe sometimes a kick is going to be off a bit okay let's tweak that up and stuff like that to make it tight with the bass and sometimes the bass is off I'm just going okay I'm going to make it tight with the drum groove uh stuff like that you know but uh to go and generally uh quantize the full drums even a little bit before
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even moving forward with extra editing I actually don't that's crazy i love it it's crazy you're brave but I you know I I know what I'm doing that's It's true it's true that's a good point you have to learn man you do have talent skill i sense a pattern in all these episodes i have a course like mug into a mug but when I start editing though I sometimes I could go overboard in a way but I do everything manually okay so getting back to recording we're already we're already mixing the drums see this is how we are no we're editing
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there it's still performance okay there's no compression yet oh okay we That's true we have an EQ and snare okay so because you're considering like editing part of mixing on a Okay another episode yeah I I do let's talk about that on another episode all right cuz that's a good one it's going to be a three-part oh yeah it is fun okay let's get back to recording okay so recording wise you've got a decent room uh do you do you still find yourself like if you had all the money in the world even a little bit more money than you
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currently have which would then be all the money in the world do you would you I'm in Canada man i guess your dollar is worth like 12 cents in the euro uh would you with all the Canadian money in the world would you and you only get one you get to build one really good drum room would it be a live or a room or a dead room oh I would go with a room where I can adjust the livveness no you get one oh I get one you get an like We're not going like a stone room versus a I think a closet but like it's 6040 you got to go
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i think I would go for a live room slightly more live yeah cuz now I'm dealing with a very dead room right now and I miss the live room because of that you know i I managed though i'm I'm actually I made a video on that on my YouTube channel but I would rather have a more of a live room than a too dead of a room that's interesting i would go the other way interesting i could add live yes i can't take away live as well and so for me there's that that tight big thick snare modern sound you would love my room then i know i
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know okay for example okay um how live do you think your environment right now at your place is it's probably more on the live side for drums yeah it's live but this is live it's live live so is this what you're considering live like that you're referring to when you asked the question or no it's it's if like if I if I record the kit for me it's always and and it's a recording concept for me that I've always had for some reason and it's just somewhat internal and I don't know if I've ever externalized it so I'm
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going to do it right now in real time sure so be kind to me there's to me there's characters whenever I'm recording there's characters and I'll talk to the guitarist i'm like "Which guy is this?" I'll say to Neil if he's doing some tracks I'll be like "Is this the the like kind of half- drunk noodle guy in the back of the verse or is this the like tight went to music school guy or the or the chord guy that knows all the chords is that guy which guy which guy are you?" Same with drummers which guy is playing drums in my mind and so
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to answer your question if I close my eyes after I've recorded the drums and I pull up the faders and I've got the dry drums is that where is that guy and is that guy on a stage is he in a big room is he in a empty bank is he in a closet is he wherever and so to me when I do that and I pull it up I tend to like the more tight Yeah closety guy cuz then I can add with more faders add width and room and depth and space so to answer your question you know this to me is closet guy room oh big time like and so
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like to me this would be I would love recording drums in here it's funny because you already told me that year uh like a year ago about you went to the other room where my drum my drums are right now and that's perfect yeah i was like I don't have a course though you don't maybe you should i should take the course can I Do you have a discount code i do i can I can you know take for you i know a guy i'm not asking for your mug it's only one of those but you know back in my old studio the room was not like a
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super large live room it was I would say a mediumsiz room but with acoustic panels that you can turn around so one side was more on the uh uh on wood that's the best more reflection and then I could like dead up the room like big time you know turning those panels around that was great and I guess that that's the short that's the right answer to you have more money than you do now is you just say yes to both right and the panels and the thing and and that's like classically that's such a great sound throughout history of like the
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close mics sound like this the medium and they throw the mics up in the loft for that sound and like that those big room sounds were you're right about you know you can always add stuff on a dead recording you know and it's getting better every day and it's the stuff yes is getting better than most people could build a room and funny enough even like in a very tight closet room like I have right here in basement there's ways you can add a very nice kind of a room and lively sound and I'm actually I
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experienced with that lately you were talking Yeah putting stuff in the hallway and the hallway the stairs you know and even the like I have like across that hall across the uh the room I have like this uh washroom you know you got your wife up there holding a mic at the Yeah in the shower you know no I just like put in a couple of mics there and honestly it's like you know a washroom is like so live to begin with and the fact that it's like further away from the drum room it adds a bit more distance and stuff it's just great you
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know it's like uh it's not the same as being in a large studio but honestly for a small place like this man it's it's cool yeah and some of that uh some of those classic rooms like they just sound so good like we were at uh Oceanway yeah uh now East West uh after Nam we ended up in there and those like you walk into those bigger rooms and you just talk and you just it just sounds good you know what I mean like that and so you just think like man like a snare like there's something to these big well-designed
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multi-million dollar design rooms from back in the day that you know us closet bedroom warriors just were doing it with impulse responses like we're using impulse responses of those rooms literally those rooms but when you're in that room like it is inspiring and so that's the other piece I guess that's worth mentioning even playing as the the other side of the glass playing in that room honestly like that's got to be maybe that's why I lean a bit more towards a live room as you're a drummer a drummer and not only an engineer you
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know so even then you know even when I just go in the in the room now and just practice Yeah my drums I still set up my mics in the washroom you know and just like crank those up jesse and he's practicing again are you almost like into the mic she's like "Are you almost done?" No dear i'm not just in your left ear she's just hold the mic hold the mics stop complaining into the mics babe hey can can you just like turn right just a bit you know stop out of phase now stop moving close the lid of the toilet
15:16
it's messing up my sound babe she's going to learn keep the spice in the marriage that's what you're doing always always actually I have a course you just got a course idea how to not be married very long exactly how to build your marriage all right so that's a really interesting idea the inspiration piece it's so Yeah of course you know practicing drum right now yeah you know when when like monitoring yourself playing drums and you're kind of like only hearing like the tight Yeah close micing yeah um it's
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it's honestly it's hard to get into it you know but the minute you have like that lively kind of general drum sound around you it's honestly way more inspiring cuz there's a but there's a genre piece you say that way better than me genre genre yeah yeah yeah how How is that better i don't know it's just you just you just Frenchy things and it just sounds It just sounds better certain words just sound better thank you you're welcome some words don't sound as good no I know most of them actually like but when it involves like food or
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wine or names of places that's it that's all I have everything sounds like a fine wine that's amazing it's amazing uh so genre specific almost thank you I'm working on it uh uh like so there's this entire sound of like hey I put a dish towel on my snare to make it even more dead and we're modern yes we're cool hip right so there's that piece where Can't be dead enough exactly does that hurt your soul no it doesn't because this it's on purpose to get that sound it's different you know as long as it's intentional and
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I actually like I have the I don't know what they call it you know it's kind of a little uh it's like kind of a drum skin you put on top of the skin but has a hole in the middle and it deads up the sound pretty well i forgot the name just I'll write it down in the show notes but uh somebody's typing right now of course somebody's smart i don't use it a lot but honestly if you're looking for a dead kind of Yeah 70s type of sound oh it's such a great sound it is i love that sound you know and this is like the
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best way to go so uh if you were building a kit Yeah there's no process to my thoughts or questions today i'm sorry there's usually not there's even less than normal i'm just I'm just blasting as I'm thinking if you're building a kit as a drummer not a mix guy what's the most What's the piece that makes you most excited are you a snare guy are you a kick guy are you a Are you a Are you a skin like shells guy are you Are you a hardware guy like what's your I think I'm a kick guy i think I'm a kick guy kick and snare
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it's like for me kick first kick first i love I love a very nice deep fat snare for sure you know um yeah but I love the feel of it even when I'm playing live I need to have like lots of bass and you know Yeah even I remember the church I was playing um at you know years ago they had like this little shaker Mhm that you put underneath the drum stool okay dude that was crazy oh like it buzzed your butt wow yeah so you don't like You're getting a little too excited about this i'm seeing I'm seeing a look in your
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eyes I've never seen before you're turn you're turned my wife's going to be like "Chris we need to call." Hey yeah yeah i'm up here holding a mic and you're down there getting buzzed with your kick drum buzzer what am I up in the bathroom for the lid closed on the toilet you're down there with your little kick buzzer okay let me rephrase yeah rephrase do the thing with your eyes again that was creepy anything I say afterwards going to sound weird man i was about to say it feels good but no that's not going to
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go no i like that you said it and it took me a minute to realize what you were talking about i was like do you mean like buzz i heard I actually heard like okay this is not good yeah this is headed somewhere weird you're going the wrong way yeah abort abort command Z command Z so that little device um some will even put it underneath a uh little I would say a little uh how do you call that little mini stage the bass player can go on on top a riser there you go put down that underneath the riser and even the
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bass player can Oh okay so kind of reproduce like it's like a sub basically u and just to make you feel the bass basically but that's it's not it's not that it exists it's not about the product it's about the placement i mean I'm totally sold on the idea it's the fact that you're in a church with this thing right under your throne man hey man anyway okay next next question let's jump to the next one please so I I'm a kick guy for that you know from that sense kick standpoint is it is it tight and low is it wide and boommy like
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what's your like you only get one for the rest of your life tight okay like small or like like big full of pillows uh no not not full of pillows in between yeah you know not too live though not the bottom type of vibe you know uh but yeah a bit more tight uh punchy um but yeah not not too uh not too alive though and I need to like to be like in your face okay that kind of kick and you're you're I'm I'm trying to remember cuz I've I've played with you before you're not a you're you're definitely not a
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loud drummer like you're not you're not like a you're a session drummer yes right like your back and your back and you play drums like this where some guys play drums like this right okay so yeah I think you're I like that yeah I could feel that with your even your kick you're not I remember the first time we played together away i know i was excited and you were like "Oh session drummer." I was like session drummer in our midst there's You can tell man it's even during a sound check like like the
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guy's like "Play the whole kit." And the session guys just like And you're like a symbol oh yeah i guess immediately if my head starts doing this like honestly the sound guy doesn't want to hear like a bunch of fills right he wants like a solid kick snare he wants to hear what you're going to play exactly yeah he wants to hear what you're going to what he's going to hear later he wants to hear that now it's a preview it's a preview so no I like to hit the drums right so they can sound so I can get the tone out
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well you know if it's too loud you do have a sweet spot yeah I think so too you know it's playing drums well especially during a recording session it's all about the dynamics also it's all about being consistent but also managing the level it's like if you're mixing while you're playing sure so if you like go hard on the high hats and the symbols and stuff but you're light on the toms and kick and snare we have a problem okay it's going to show big time but if you The guy the guy the guy in next podcast is going to be mad at you
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oh big time cuz now we're talking about mixing yeah that's that podcast is we're mad oh we're mad at that guy for sure let's call him Johnny yeah Johnny so Johnny's not doing the right thing here okay so it's it's more the opposite you know you get more control over the symbols the way you hit the symbols the high hats and stuff like that you know it's all you know and then you and then you just like focus on hitting being consistent on the kick the snare the toms you know and then of course the performance you know being
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laidback or rushing on purpose or click and stuff like that you know but um yeah it's about managing the levels as you play you know and that that comes with experience for sure which I have none i know i was about to tell but sad it's sad we need to talk i have I have a good heart though you do have a beautiful heart thank you doesn't Doesn't help with my drumming career no no it's a really nice guy who plays really bad the heart is good how important is the stick size whatever you're comfortable with you
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know depending on the genre of course if I like record a more kind of a full type of acoustic light drum playing you know I'm not going to reverse my stick to the uh the big side and nuts you know but yeah of course kind of a smart size yeah do you a as you're growing up drummer learning drummer do you do you have a size that you love yes 5bs i know yeah like guitarists have that pick yeah like when I'm alone and nobody's there i think this is one of the you know the common Yeah drumstick size I guess that lots of drummers like
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to play with it's not too big not too small it's kind of Okay yeah and Okay so then we've got our kick going you like a big meaty snare we decided uh you like to feel the kick everywhere how how important how how important are shells like I spent all this money on these new shells made of maple unicorn tier baby blood like do you know what I mean you know and then there's a guy who's like I bought this last week the guy's like I bought this kit for 300 bucks on Kijiji from a guy and I was like this is like one of the
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best sounding kits I've ever heard i was like what's it made of he's like I don't know what it's sparkly he's like I this is going to be perfect you know okay I'm a drummer but I'm not a drummer at the same time i'm more That's like me a producer and you know what I do in the studio i'm not that either no dude telling you I have courses i'm telling you you don't know why I'm here it's cuz I buy breakfast and then you just bring me over here that's the only reason tell me there's a chair it's because you paid for the breakfast the
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microphone's backwards i actually paid for the breakfast god you did okay uh by the way quality of skin uh quality of the shells and stuff um unicorn tear shells a man I I'm a in a way I'm a kind of a fake drummer um cuz I've been playing with the same drum kit that I bought back when I was like 15 years old man like an old pearled maple shell from the 80s yeah um that I bought like for I think I bought it for 650 bucks or something at the time and I still use it like for the kick and yeah and toms you know of course the symbols
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the snares and stuff it's different you know but for the the shells yeah it's like the same old pieces of drums you know it still sounds good it you know like I wish I would have access to more drums but I decided to invest somewhere else yeah into me really into teaching me how to record things never ending spend evening in my breakfast so if you walked into a room and there was like beautiful new like we're at NM and we're looking at these kits and it's like holy like and yeah I can't I was the Yamaha room and it was
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just like the new like it's some kind of wood thing I can't pronounce you probably could it's got the things and little dashes over the E and stuff but it's like and and these people are playing these things and I'm like this is amazing this is the most amazing like thousands of dollars on shells you could spend like does that excite you or are you just like me no it does okay yeah it does maybe because I'm so used to drum kit I have that when I watch someone playing on a like a an awesome Yeah kiddum that sounds amazing
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I'm like "Oh I want this kit." Yeah you know so imagine what I can do with these drums you know so yeah yeah for me it's like Yeah it's uh So we've we've become I my as we were talking about at breakfast my my son has become a little ski racer sure and so it was our CO project so CO hit everything in the world closed but for some reason the ski hills in Alberta were still open it was like Yeah and it was like it's open but caveat this you got to go up the gondola alone and there's little cohort things
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and all the little things and so I was like well this is open let's go do that so we rented some stuff and went skiing and that's what we started doing during CO and so it's it turned into this amazing thing that we now do constantly point of this is I skied a little bit when I was young and when I started skiing again back in COVID a few years ago the equipment had changed so much like so much like it was like I remember like boards and poles and like you try to turn and nothing and now you're just
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like you think about skiing and your skis are there's technology in the everything right everything in the world every sport is the technology advanced same music the technology so much and so I've got to think you know on some level having this new technology of drum and things and stuff would make playing easier in some or more inspiring or do you know what I mean like Yeah I know what you mean it it could you know but also on the other hand you get an old Lewig kit from the 70s that also can
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sound pretty cool you know like you get something else but you're right all of that to say tactile yeah you're playing an old kit that from the pawn shop and then you sit down on one of these new NAM kits and just start playing like it's got to feel Yes different and more fluid and more and again depends on the drum skins right so okay so talk about that yeah there's so many different kinds of of heads when it comes to drum heads some are a bit more thick than others some you know different amount of pliers and
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stuff you know depending on how um Yeah is it how you want the drums to sound feel like is it more sound or more feel like would you sacrifice more sustain less more sustain less sustain i would say but does it feel different it does but as you go by would you rather be like "This one sounds 10% less but feels better or the opposite?" H this one sounds great i don't like playing it as much that Yeah of course that can happen yeah yeah yeah which one do you go to oh man for feel double ply is feel more important than
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sound is what I'm saying when you're playing but feel will affect your performance okay so that that that's a huge one yes you know performance is like for me it's more important in a way mhm yeah for sure and uh hardware same thin thick warm bright hardware you mean like like symbols and Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah of course yeah where do you go right now i'm more like I'm kind of in between right now you know but I would love to maybe invest into some more dark type of symbols you're bright currently it's
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kind of in the middle not too bright but maybe a bit too loud for a studio did you I'm a bit careful when I play while recording yeah you thank yourself later yeah of course next episode guy we'll thank you yeah did you ever go through the like this is the most random drunk drunkenly directed conversation ever but I love it did you ever go through the like mega hardware phase like the Neil Per and like Queen Sri on chains and like I have 46 and a gong like did you ever go through the gong phase the the 80 the uh Alex Van
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Alen you know the big gong in the back you know no I didn't go that far uh but I used to be a huge Mike Portoi Dream Theater fan you know um [Laughter] imagine with M yeah nice name with Mike Manini you know yeah like six bars to get through a film goodness h or what's his name uh not Tony but uh Terry Bosio oh yeah talking about Yeah hardware you know uh no but um I used to have like these little symbols and stuff like that you know yeah little things hanging out you know and even like a drum rack at
31:06
some point trying to get chicks like Yeah of course i I you know I was not married at the time you know i just got these gloves and all these drums like what can go wrong and then I got married and I just stick to just one ride two symbols and that's it one Tom she's up in the bathroom yeah of course holding mics that's it you just gave up yeah and now we go MS in the bathroom you know ms he needs to hold two mics ms in the bathroom you got to hold him just right babe don't mess with that stereo field just
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don't move so stupid what a what a dumb image so So all right so the big hardware how long did that last for you it's a good thing my wife is not editing this podcast that's true that's true trouble studio stuff with Steve put my chair right in the middle here still losing my space yeah yeah of course you're up there with the mics you hold your own mics so uh how long did this big hardware phase last for you the mega gear drum gear i told you until I got married no not not long you know when I started
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touring with my previous band years ago you had to carry it oh that's like Okay you want to keep it as simple as possible last time you hit a stairwell oh my goodness yeah that was like okay one tom one floor stairs yeah exactly yeah we did the boss i don't care how many chicks are here stairs are steep is there a way I can just play with a kahong this time around exactly shaker guy so yeah and then did you go through the you know I I think I think Neil Perch or I think Carter Burwell you know like that era of
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like the the lots of notes did you go through that phase you know went through the high speed no not not really you know I tried but you know it wasn't my thing it wasn't my thing like you're talking about double bass stuff and Yeah you know I had like like any drummers I had like the double double bass pedals and I you know I did experiment with that but not the with the style of music I was playing with my band and you know the stuff I produced was like you know like where you just play wicked cool
33:16
stuff you've always been sessiony in your most of the time yeah yeah this the way I kind of grew up you know did you ever play hard you ever just like like Yeah of course hard rock guy of course yeah like publicly yeah live yeah amazing i could picture just a bit you know not not much but yeah did your hair ever get really long oh dude really oh I have pictures oh I've never seen long hair dude long curly hair at some point I had like dreads can you put one on the podcast right now so if you're listening on
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Spotify or Apple podcast you're going to need to go to John YouTube channel chris's wife did not edit that photo in somebody else did oh man dude as far as look goes I had so many looks like bald uh red hair uh really yeah yellow and then long and short and like dreads and all that stuff how'd you get such a rad wife ah man very supportive wife oh I guess i'm telling you man very supportive wife still here she's still here is it the same one it is imagine i'm glad you said yes if you said no I would be in trouble if
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you said no it would have been really awkward for me yeah in fact she left me imagine that i was like "Oh sorry dude." No the mood the moods change like Yeah so sad that's so sad that's like asking somebody when their baby's due and I'm not pregnant yeah that that'll be one of those awkward moments in real time turkey was good last night uh so okay so because it's a studio conversation I guess we should talk about recording drums okay so now we've we've I think in real time Frankenstein together the perfect kit of cheap shells
35:07
sure thick things in this size room we've got our whole thing all set up okay all right so we're ming up our kit this kit is sitting here we're of questionable quality sure i was not even sure what we're playing in this room we know there's one mic or two in the bathroom and that's as far as we've gotten for our recording so far so let's carry on that's a start all right so we're mikeing up the kick are you a uh kick in obviously yes how far in uh maybe 8 in off the uh the head so you're just you're a bit in you're not
35:42
you're not getting up on the the Yeah between six and eight okay i would say so about a third of the way in yeah I would say yeah maybe uh and so you got this thing out i need a bit of snap you know but at the same time a bit of body you know so yep out mic yeah sometimes yeah if I uh if I can yeah if I enough channels yeah you've got channels i will i've got channels you got channels oh yeah for sure audience more channels i I love it you're all set i love it you know so uh you got your kick in you got
36:11
your kick out and out is it like a big mic is it yeah it's going to be like um I have a Is it a V47 from um Jay-Z microphone very neutral but at the same time a bit dark uh so it's great for for a kick and how far away are you i not far away yeah me neither i've tried like there was that whole era of like put the mic and I can't no it's pretty tight it just it's just this big flappy thing with symbols and it's too much snare i don't know how people do it there's a lot of people that do it i don't like there's a lot of
36:44
people that love like a 47 over there kind of kick sound right or whatever like this point is kind of a room sound you know a room mic this yeah uh all right so mostly in a touch of out do you ever do uh like a beater mic on the front i tried i've done it i tried i'll tell you where it works for me go ahead and I have gone back and done it multiple times because it works so well jazz oh okay when you've got kind of a soft Yeah it it's the the you know it's all the they're just stirring the soup
37:13
on the snare and it's every once in a while that little mic ends up being the primary mic cuz you want to hear beater it's a soft it's a soft little beater sound otherwise it's just sub exactly exactly so that to me that little 50 like a 57 that's a great idea it's beautiful it's beautiful mixed in there uh and then they're playing so soft it's not bleeding all into it and it's it's a wonderful little wonderful little mic and I've done it out of desperation once and I was like this this is a neat fader
37:39
this fader makes me happy okay so we got our three-ish mics on the kick uh that's your most important sure i think yeah where where do you go next are you snare next or you overheads next mentally if you're going to start constructing a recording setup on a kit yeah you know snare overheads they come together in my in my book you know so yeah it's going to be setup overheads and then it depends sometimes how I feel sure you know do I like like spaced yeah or XY on top of me it depends sometimes
38:12
I go ribbon mics sometimes little condensers you you you get you get two mics and you're stuck on your island forever with two mics what kind of mic are they are they for little condensers are they ribbons are they I tend to like ribbons a lot on overheads honestly you know I had a pair um yeah a company sent me a pair uh Adler I think a few years ago and they sound great and I love them all i did both so sometimes they're spread out you know spaced or just like like this you only get one like this you can
38:49
only do one one you one choice h space is kind of spaced it works all the time me too it works spaced ribbons yeah yeah is where I've landed in my life okay what about the uh when there's space do you measure I do from the snare or the kick snare yeah same here yeah the snare's in the center yes 100% and it and it ends up being weird sometimes of course because like And that was like as a younger recording guy last week now I'm experienced this week i took a course you took mine i did cuz it's in my course i have my
39:25
recording course you're Joe Gilder right hi Joe oh sorry hi Joe we love you man we do love Joe he's fantastic what a what a guy one of those few people where you just like sit down and instantly you're like I just want to be in the room with this guy know all day he's one of those i thought I would have that with you but you know unfortunately I met Joe i know same here we both met Joe so we should just put Joe right here we'll add a picture or something to him what were we talking about i know oh
39:59
back in the day it was you know you would try to do the overheads more symmetrical even visually right oh now it's all over the place and now as I've gotten into like actually listening and and for me it was a huge thing i don't know if you've ever done this i've just watered one night late cuz out of frustration a little wireless transmitter and belt pack okay so I can plug my headphones in i'll put my in ears in and go in while the drummer's playing and then just like I can hear it oh you're fancy yeah well it was it
40:27
wasn't expensive but it was fancy okay what kind of headphones you had well that's another topic these are my my custom now you have the drummer custom yeah no yeah i do my IM things my Oh fancy guy that's me look at this this is my This is my best mostly black t-shirt that's blackish t-shirt and so there's something about that like like moving and you can hear it like there's a spot where you're like that yes and the snare does a thing and the kick does a thing it's beautiful and then you measure and
40:58
it's amazing how often it's like exactly and sometimes not even the same height yeah it's exactly the right measurement though yeah they're twisted and wrong and lopsided they look wrong like on video I'm like who miked this kit exactly yeah me when you hear it which is interesting with drums as well how often drums don't sound amazing in a room but they record great mhm like session guys come in and I'm like that's your kit and they're like just trust me you know what I mean and as soon as you
41:25
mic it up as soon as you mic it up you're like I don't know it's like Frankenstein shells and like things don't match and like it's that right anyway so overheads space for me the ribbons yeah I've been I've been on the Kohl's kick for a while and just just beautiful it's beautiful the EQ they take you a bit more dark you know it's like oh and they just e and again it comes to the tone of the symbols I have you know it's a bit more bright than you know the dark symbols I would love to you know so the ribbons they will work
41:50
fine and ribbons EQ well too if you want to brighten versus like for me sometimes condensers just they brighten in like a bit of a drill bit thing right so we've got our overheads going so snare 507 is there anything else like have you tried other stuff i've tried other stuff i've tried the the AIX snare mite is it like the D2 or something like that you know it was it's a bit more dark a bit more fat you know so I kind of like that too but 57 for the most part is going to work it's kind of a go-to um you know
42:21
and sometimes like I also tried combining an SM 57 with a condenser also you know a little pencil mic you know um for especially for light type of stuff you know jazz or folk and stuff you know condenser brushes condenser is going to work well you know and sometimes like you know tape them together and you know and that will work yeah so I tried that too my permanent tape like you gaff tape and now it's been so long if I took it off it would still be on there it's like it's been that Uh it it's like two zip ties and some
42:51
gaff tape and it's been a a Sennheiser 441 oh yeah exactly and a 57 that combo to me one of them always works i usually I usually have the 441 on high hats yep but you know for a snare it's perfect that's amazing and it's so different from the 57 it is cuz a lot of them I just it didn't matter okay what about bottom snare uh 57 do you like to use a bottom snare always always yep do I use it on the next episode for mix not always where I find myself leaning really hard on the bottom snare to jump ahead is uh for ghost
43:26
notes yes that like overcompressed for ghost notes that's when it just gets mixed and even samples or whatever totally it gets brought in are you are you a same angle guy yeah usually yeah same angle usually yeah from the same side and stuff yeah uh do you get right down on the snare or are you kind of an up and It depends what I want to do do I want to get tone i want to get more transients you know you only get one for the rest of your life for the rest of my life yes i You hit an age where you'll never
43:55
change you wear the same outfit honestly you know you listen to the same records and you put your mic in the same spot if you aim a bit more towards the center of the skin of the snare you know you're going to get more attack okay both a bit more towards the edge bit more tone i kind of do kind of in between you know uh to get the best of both worlds you know so with just like the perfect angle we're going to just replace it anyway so it doesn't really matter exactly it's just there for the photos who keeps the snare anyways
44:23
what's a snare oh okay you know what talking about that do you replace drums all the time well now you're in the next episode forget about samples stand in the recording sampling your drums oh oh I see sampling your own drums yeah I do that a lot every time I'm I'm done with a session there like snare what you're saying few few hits you know kick toms you know so sometimes you do you can replace your own drums with your own with the same snare y just to make if especially if there's lots of lead and stuff oh man
44:57
it's a I don't use a lot I haven't done that when you need it that's great that's a good idea sometimes like a you know a drum that you know the the drummer hits like he hit the ring you know the rim instead of the the head by mistake but I just steal i just steal i go back and look for the little where the turd does that and then I just But then there's bleed and stuff like that what if you have a clean turtle what about the turd yeah that's kind of weird but you know for definition but yeah let's say it exists i immediately was
45:27
picturing Jesse up there just like looking over with her MS setup right there right there i got it here guys thanks Jess so you Yeah we love her we love her we love our wives don't we more importantly they like us oh man they think we're okay they think so yeah ah it's so weird i've never understood how ladies can like us like we're just lumpy we're just lumpy and hairy and ignorant and we just Oh we're gross oh yes we are we are yes we are but we But we have good hearts you have a good heart that's
46:12
right i have talent that's Oh that's why we do this together dude so you have the heart you have the talent joe was here oh Joe you have to come up to Canada Joe joseph wants wouldn't that be amazing come up to Canada Joe oh Joe so all right so we've got our overheads we've got our snare we've got our kick all right toms do you like Are you like a 421 guy 421 is good uh the little Yeah I don't clip them on but uh yeah but surprisingly enough the clipons of the Audics are pretty good they're really good so they I was afraid
46:46
at once funny enough I think Joe saw one of saw one of my videos what a years ago what a full circle run that was years ago i don't know if you remember Joe but years ago you know I was I made a video and like talking about my uh drum recording setup and it was like those little aics clipped to the the rim of the the toms and the tom and the floor and he was like "Do you hear like the the vibration in the like you know?" I was like "Oh let me check." You know it's like it's pretty clean that I wrote
47:11
them back no it's actually pretty clean you don't hear any vibrations it's funny enough cuz usually that could be a danger when you have like clipons yeah you know but these are actually pretty good yeah they're good i still don't use them but like live it's like they're they're always there in a pinch yes it's good to know they exist oh yeah and there on occasion like even live like getting stands in there and like Yeah that's just great like clip them on let the wires hang but now I I stopped using
47:35
the clips and I use little drum uh little stands mic stands but the small ones that you put on the snare and stuff but put on the toms so we don't have like this big pole going on all over the place you know look at you keep that to a strict man you know fancy and now I want to kind of drill maybe like something something on the my ceiling maybe kind of a pipe or something bar just to to clip some overs and stuff like that from the on the ceiling you're a professional no I actually saw that from uh Andrew Masters on one of his
48:03
videos yeah that's fair super nice drum setup i think I saw that video oh man that guy is great man i I don't know him personally but yeah I think I saw the same video and the other thing he did in that same moment I think is he had done a remote setup yes next to his kit so he had like run lines so he mirrored his control room next to his own kit to record himself i did that in my old studio exactly his setup and that's cool it's such a simple idea it is engineer yourself and you play it back and it's
48:32
your same thing it's perfect oh it's so great what I do now I have the uh the audience ID48 interface i just set that up into my drum room and the only thing I need to bring with me is my laptop because my laptop is my main computer yeah okay so bring the laptop in the in the room you've got everything do my drum recording everything is there yeah and like then come back in the control room mix you know just it's the same thing you're going to use anyway it's not like if there's other drummers coming here to record anyways it's my
49:02
own studio so I'm the only drummer doing I would like to come and record my drums yeah but I now would like to come and record drums in your That would be cool in your living room that's probably a better idea i know how to play them yeah cuz Yeah wikes could be rough we got technology i'm just going to sample myself and then I'll just do it with the grid it'll be amazing nobody will even know I didn't play it so what else are we missing so right now we've got our toms going we got our orbits are you
49:32
like So okay sorry guys this is going to be a long episode you know yeah or just random yeah oh rooms are you a big big room mic i love them i know you sorry room mics i know you love them you love to hear them but do you like to I love to feel them okay how often are they part of your final product it depends on the quality of the recording i find if they don't sound good I'm not going to use them do you find But now with the with Jesse in the in the washer with the to with the lid closed and the clean turd yeah yeah yeah
50:05
the clean turd recording honestly we're laughing but it does make a huge difference how often between a clean and a not clean turd i I know we're jumping ahead to next week but how often do you get just crap room mics when people send you stuff i get them so often they're like room one through four and I'm like "These are the most useless things I've ever taken up hard drive space with." Yeah like I don't think you understand the idea yeah we're getting ahead of ourselves yeah next week we can talk
50:34
about that okay but while you're recording them where are you putting room mics in your smallest room besides upstairs and the kind of novel things in the room do you go to corners do you go behind behind the drum so okay there's behind behind on top of me that is a good mic a good mic too or even between the uh just on top of the kit uh on top of the kick drum in between the the kick and the snare right on top this is actually pretty cool you over compress this and you know okay something else
51:04
and this is something by mistake that I used in a session I had the drummer the drummer I said I set a uh a talk back microphone on the drummer at some point it was just communication with him you know and um while I was mixing I also record that I always record that mic you know I always record it that actually sounds pretty good and it actually ended up part of the uh the recorder it's a 57 yeah with Mutomatic Do you use that thing no it's a it's a free plugin sweetwater uh no free free uh it'll come to me in a second who
51:37
makes it somebody's typing right now it's not Sound Radics is it Soundratics it's one of those guys okay and it's just basically when you hit play it mutes the channel when you hit stop it unmutes it and so it always sits on my drum talk back always it's just a free plugin and it's fantastic and so that one so then it allows me to always record but it's always opening and closing to the headphones cool and that that that that's a great mic the talkback crush mic it's fantastic and then I crush it really hard because if
52:04
you hit stop while the drummer is still finishing it then goes to everybody's headphones at at volume and so it unmutes as soon as you hit stop so I crush it really hard so everybody doesn't start screaming and yelling yeah exactly right if I stop in the middle of a take to talk it's not just like cuz those mics are chaos the drum mic above and then the one the snare kick hybrid mic this is cool that was a Gear Space find for me one night late somebody was talking about it and I was like "This is cool." And it was cool
52:35
and then what's the other one uh it's a it's a name where it's like back it's two mics you can record the whole kit with two mics oh the Glen John's technique yeah so there's Have you ever played with that i've never done it i read about it all the time but I've never just taken the time it works it works but honestly you know it it's cool it was cool for the time you know when it was kind of uh invented yeah um but yeah it's very simple you have one mic on top of the kit straight over the snare the second one the second overhead
53:05
is basically aiming towards the snare but at the uh on the side of the floor right on top of the floor but aiming on the snare mh and then you have the kick and and that's it and you But there's no need to do that i don't think so you know for a modern recording Yeah it's not going to work you could yeah but why but why somebody's typing right now of course and I love that i love to know but why it's amazing when people are like "Here's why I do it." It's cool no but let's say you know you're recording live
53:36
with your band you have like eight channels and stuff you just Okay so I have like three inputs to my the drums there you go you have your technique that a thousand% okay that's it that's all you need thousand% makes sense uh what about the high hat do you record the high hat i forgot about the high hat i I literally forgot about the high hat because why because I'm I don't use the fader that it sits on i I just spent an entire thing recording the kick or the kit and forgot about the high hat i record the high hat every
54:05
time i record it i love knowing it's there but you never use it every once in a while yeah same here every once in a while like for a for a thing if there's a reason during a verse or something or bridge it's just building on that but like it just ends up being the overheads going to the overheads man they will take care of the high hats yeah and otherwise it just pulls my snare weird okay if you have like eight channels to record drums with Yeah are you going to mic the high hats no no same here no no
54:30
i'm going to I'm just going to make sure in my monitoring that I hear it right like it's that that's what I record i record it with the other mics and make sure it's there when I kind of mix as I monitor right cuz honestly if you use paste um overheads there's your high hat beautiful it's there and it sounds great it's going to be well balanced right away a close high hat does not sound nice it's not a pleasant sound no okay what about room let's several mics or only one mic mono or depends on the
54:59
thing it depends on the amount of inputs you have access to also mics inputs the room the genre the whatever like in a perfect world oh yeah there's mics everywhere but then you get face issues yeah but I that's that's next week's problem oh I don't know i'm going to make it a recording problem saying "I'm at Oceanway and I've got an assistant and all the mics and cables in the world we're going to set some mics up and they're going to know where and which ones and I'm going to rely on them." But
55:26
yeah room mics like like the layer even when you're playing with the plugins like an ocean wave plugin or something like it's fun to move those mics around of course and and blend them and like to add some dimension and stuff that real life oh that'd be so neat oh I wish I had more wish I had more money in that case I do spend some time um checking phase at the recording stage oh yeah of course you know sometimes you know different place and stuff that's a good English word that I learned just the
55:50
other week from my wife that is fancy of course hi Julie being facicious again uh yeah so there there is yeah once if it if it all works of course can you imagine like to truly be able to mix in real like east west room mics like the most famous room mics in the world like for me when the mics are 20 grand and they're like hanging from the ceiling upside down okay so now you're kind of an advocate for a very nice live room i am and look at you oh I'm not building it h I did have all the money in the world
56:27
in that analogy i had more money than you oh yes you did oh no i told you you had more money than you you didn't tell me money I had no no but you you used to live in LA man i did i know that's why I had no money i I was born in Canada i have no money it's just worth less uh live room though but it's a genre it's a genre question i think so too yeah it's so like a big rock record with room like that's the sound we grew up on yes and it makes my heart happy and warm and fuzzy right but like modern like that stuff no room just just
57:04
tight and thick and in your face yeah every drum is the same level that's the thing with a large room you know the larger the room even the close mics are going to you committed catch it up yeah and that's where I at the beginning I guess that's where I went i didn't want to commit to a large room but given Oh but it's fun i recorded like a few live albums in large rooms it's amazing but that's a live album in a large room when you close your eyes that's the guy right where where you got like dude
57:36
little brother playing funk like that that sound oh yeah of course beautiful for sure tight tight tight tight tight where the kick and the snare are like the same size you know what I mean like the small kick the thick snare oh it's so good oh so beautiful so what else are we missing i think we kind of covered a lot i think we covered of drum recording wow i'm trying to think if there's anything oh are we committing to any uh uh chain stuff as we record are we EQing are we compressing or are we just
58:06
recording mics for next week's guy honestly if I compress um and I started to to experiment with that a bit you know it's very very very light kick and snare a bit of overheads but you know and I honestly and I don't even look at the needle i'm just like okay I'm I'm going to hear it right away if it's overcompressing it's And it does it at the worst time yes it's always during like the big important fill yeah where everything collapses yeah um but sometimes I just like to to to get like the signal into a
58:39
compressor even if it's not compressing just to get that tone and that color so so sometimes it's not always about compressing but more about tone ah I see where you're going there yeah so yeah that I I like to have like record a nice tone right when you're recording as the drummer do you like to have compression and stuff applied to your mix like I'll do it in the DAW i'll add it record clean but then kind of compress the overheads a bit or take make make a drum bus that goes out to the headphones that's a bit processed
59:11
yeah honest as a drummer I don't care much about that maybe as a singer if I if I was a singer which I'm not but I would probably care more but as a drummer no I don't i don't care much about that i like how your voice totally changed when you said "I'm not a singer i'm not a singer i'm not a singer." You just had to prove it this is why I'm not a singer guys that was so random it'll be like I kind of got into it that'd be like if you're like I'm not a dancer and then you just like fell over you know what I mean like just to prove
59:40
it oh man maybe i wish I was a was a singer you could be a singer you'd have warm soothing tones i don't know yeah maybe old school kuner but if you love like pitchy vocals I'm your guy uh yeah you want to see that autotune do a thing oh dude you want to test your autotune plugins hello where it where it's not sure what note it is i'm in i'm in i'm your guy just quantize oh test your quantizer exactly it's good we should put a band together just call like the the test the test band everybody trade
01:00:08
instruments it' be amazing oh man just to pressure test the doll oh okay steve are you ready for today's question i have never been so ready for a question okay this is going to How does that sound on a podcast i don't know weird it's like that's We're back in the war i was going to say it's just like it should be in MS all right Jesse can you close the door yeah close the door Jesse all right so this is from Oh this is from uh Luke from Magog Quebec yeah that's how I would have said all those words there you go luck from
01:00:49
Magog it's a very nice little town in Quebec i believe it everything sounds like a fine cheese all right so there was a French version that I think you translated yes go ahead uh he said "I'm going to ask my question in French but you can answer me in English," which I appreciate thanks Luke from Fine G's he says "What what exactly do you have to send to the mastering engineer for mastering a single audio file or several separate groups?" So stems versus stereo is that and the second part is uh I know we should not leave
01:01:21
limiters on the master bus um they talked a bit about you know mastering at ls and is this normal and minus 23 and minus 25 and all these things you fancy smart guys know about yeah so at what level you send your mix to master send your mix to mastering so I guess yeah part one I made a video on that actually not stems versus stereo okay stems you know it I don't see a lot of stem mastering you know I know that mastering engineers some will offer stem mastering it gives the uh uh the mastering engineer a bit
01:01:56
more control okay so that could be an advantage you know depending on the quality of the mix and the quality of your mastering engineer and the quality of your mastering engineer because you have in them yes because now you're talking about changing the levels also you know so they are tinkering under the hood yes of your car if you're not confident about the end result of your mix yeah if if you have like someone you trust that is mastering your music and offers stem mastering that could be a good option you know this not something
01:02:25
I usually I never sent a stem masterings to uh like stems to a mastering engineer on my end but it's a thing my Yeah my my guy Dale has been mastering stuff for me for many many many many moons and my my split the difference my compromise on it is that I will send him versions if I'm not sure so I do that i will say here is I'm just not sure man here's the vocal a little louder you pick you pick but this is different yeah correct different version but I'm saying that and so that's my way of of you don't have to go through and make
01:02:57
this big decision just quickly like jump in the middle and he'll just go like "Dude I listen to 5 seconds and I see that on his thing." Right so that that to me is is a is a way more useful version yeah plus doing the vocals i love that or even bass like man I'm just not sure this bass heavy but you pick so I love that so I'm good with either you pick exactly yeah so then he's not sending back a surprise sure right so that that's mine mine on that I guess but stem stem mastering not really it feels a little It's like I said it's a
01:03:26
thing you can if you want to but and it's not something I It's stereo usually and then uh levels levels uh yeah I made a video on my YouTube channel not too long ago go Professor yeah talking about gainstaging the mix bus basically i got I got to get on this you know YouTube channel of yours it's you should you'll learn so many things man discount code and you you need to man i'll give you any code you want go learn something you So how important are levels in the modern era uh on the mix bus just don't
01:04:01
pick the mix bus so pull pull stuff off the mix bus yeah that's a huge one take off your limiters and all that i would say you know I have some stuff on the mix bus it's part of the mix i leave it there you know the only thing I like to mix with the limiter on okay that's uh Yeah this is what I do uh but I do bypass it yes before I bounce that's what I mean to mastering so you know what leave that to master the mastering guy but the levels you know I just make sure the the mix bus doesn't go Yeah
01:04:29
above zero uh 0 dBFS cuz then you're peing the mix bus you're peing digitally which is not the same as in the analog world so it's not going to be a nice It's not going to give you a nice saturation you know warm sound this is analog you know but digital nothing good man so that's it pull pull off I I pull off the limiter i just usually turn that fader down and hit go yeah and that's it you know usually when I gain stage my sessions properly I'm going to end up with a level between minus 8 to minus 6
01:05:02
CBFS on the mix bus by keeping the uh the fader at the unity point uh then I just you know do my processing or you know so a lot of the time most of the time anyways my processing is already in place while I'm mixing anyways on my mix bus uh but yeah so and then I just don't bother you know so if it's at - 10 it's at - 10 fits like minus three and for me each song is kind of different it when it goes out as a project and the mastering guy will then regain stage as he sees fit better than I could try to
01:05:31
do it for him the the only thing I pay attention to as far as the level goes when it comes to the master bus and it goes to you know for for any channel for that matter is when I have some some analog gear involved so you need to gain stage make sure that you don't send you know too hot of a level to the analog gear so then you know so it depends on the gear also depends on on how it it's calibrated but uh yeah little things you need to pay attention to and then comes back to the uh the channel but the
01:05:57
channel itself you know as long as you don't peak it you're good you're good so you know no big deal so no no need to to do the minus 23 the loss i don't even I don't look at the LUFS levels nothing when I mix no that's a mastering thing in my book anyways you know you can if you want to but I don't care much about that i look at the meter itself the DBFS level to make sure it doesn't peak and that's it you know no none of the red lofts and like no red no red that's it that's all man that's a good
01:06:29
question though that was Yeah thanks Luke from an island of wine Magog Quebec perfect yeah you need to learn French man do I i think you do but do I you'll sound way more fancy because that's that's what I'm going for here [Music]