Intro & banter
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[00:03] Chris: Mr. Steve,
[00:03] Steve: Mr. Chris,
[00:03] Chris: it's been a while.
[00:03] Steve: It has been a while.
[00:03] Chris: A week.
[00:03] Steve: A week. And I miss you during that week.
[00:03] Chris: I know. Same here. Look at that.
[00:03] Steve: Uh but we do talk about random things.
[00:03] Chris: Yes.
[00:03] Steve: On on the WhatsApp.
[00:03] Chris: Yeah.
[00:03] Steve: Have you migrated a lot of your conversations to WhatsApp?
[00:03] Chris: I'm all over the place.
[00:26] Steve: A lot of my convos are on WhatsApp. I do use Signal also with Lij and the boys.
[00:26] Chris: Okay.
[00:26] Steve: And
[00:26] Chris: you and your conspiracy theories and whatnot.
[00:26] Steve: Yeah,
[00:26] Chris: it's good. Your anti-government conversations conspiracy theories, Bitcoin,
[00:26] Steve: Bitcoin and conspiracy JFK stuff. Trying to figure out if we really landed on the moon.
[00:46] Chris: Yep. Exactly. And then I use Marco Polo.
[00:46] Steve: Ah,
[00:46] Chris: with family, which is great. And with Chaz.,
[00:46] Chris: Okay. Chaz is Marco Polo guy, too.
[00:46] Steve: He He has things to say and
[00:46] Chris: yeah,
[00:46] Steve: Marco Polo seems like a good way for him to say them.
[00:46] Chris: Very good way. So, you love Chaz.
[00:46] Steve: Every message Chaz sends, like I can hear you checking like a Chaz message, I'm like, it's like he does his own podcast to you.
[01:14] Chris: He's your everyday podcast friend.
[01:14] Steve: We all have We all have one or two of those.
[01:14] Chris: Yeah. So, with Chaz, it's Marco. It's uh with the Lidge, it's Signal, and with Dom, it's WhatsApp. And you It's WhatsApp.
[01:14] Steve: Yeah. The Euro. Yeah,
[01:14] Chris: the Euro WhatsApp. Why am I on WhatsApp randomly? I live down the street.
[01:30] Steve: I know.
[01:30] Chris: It's funny because Dom me and Dom like we never write. We always leave voice messages on WhatsApp.
[01:30] Steve: And it's just like it's almost having our own podcast, you know, just back and forth and
[01:30] Chris: Yeah. But it's wrong messages and
[01:30] Steve: cuz WhatsApp is like the Euro the European conversation move for me
[01:30] Chris: and you up the street.
[01:52] Steve: Yeah. Yeah. For some reason.
[01:52] Chris: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. using the same app.
[01:52] Steve: For some reason, you're my WhatsApp friend.
[01:52] Chris: That's so funny.
[01:52] Steve: Anyway,
[01:52] Chris: yes, that's the WhatsApp conversation for today.
[01:52] Steve: Mhm.
[01:52] Chris: Uh you should pivot us.
[01:52] Steve: I should like for example, you know, uh we love apps like WhatsApp, but we also like apps like YouTube.
[02:11] Chris: Sure.
[02:11] Steve: On your phone, there's an app called YouTube. If you go straight
[02:11] Chris: on the Studio Stuff podcast YouTube channel from your phone, you can subscribe.
[02:11] Steve: There's a little subscribe button. You press on it.
[02:11] Chris: That's the one.
[02:11] Steve: That's the one.
[02:11] Chris: You hammer it.
[02:11] Steve: You hammer it as the kids say.
[02:11] Chris: Yeah.
[02:27] Steve: And you make sure it's grayed out. Okay. So, if it's red, like click on it. It's going to
[02:27] Chris: Okay.
[02:27] Steve: grade itself out.
[02:27] Chris: So, everybody needs to go and check right now.
[02:27] Steve: Everyone. Everyone listening or watching this podcast.
[02:27] Chris: Even my mom.
[02:27] Steve: Aven your mom. Subscribe to the YouTube channel.
[02:27] Chris: Perfect.
[02:27] Steve: And follow us on the other platforms like Spotify, uh, Apple Music,
[02:27] Chris: Amazon Music.
The listener question: “How many plugins do you use on a vocal chain?”
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[02:53] Steve: I think we're on episode what, 30?
[02:53] Chris: 29.
[02:53] Steve: 29.
[02:53] Chris: You didn't say iTunes.
[02:53] Steve: I know. First time.
[02:53] Chris: I know. That's why you kind of cheered.
[02:53] Steve: I was waiting.
[02:53] Chris: It's amazing.
[02:53] Steve: I'm a grandpa. So, I know you get grandpa stuff in your mind.
[02:53] Chris: Yeah. Back in your day.
[02:53] Steve: Now, we we um we have a question about uh vocals. We like
[02:53] Chris: because vocals is like
[02:53] Steve: it's a thing. Yeah.
[03:20] Chris: big part of songs
[03:20] Steve: to put a lot of focus on vocals like they should
[03:20] Chris: as they should.
[03:20] Steve: Like they should. Okay. So, um, hello my people. Here's my question. How many plugins do you use for a vocal chain or on a vocal chain?
[03:20] Chris: That's a good question.
[03:20] Steve: That's a good question. So, so let's rephrase that as how many plugins do we need?
[03:20] Chris: I
[03:20] Steve: on a vocal chain.
[03:43] Chris: I feel like this is one of these podcasts that's going to end with no answer.
[03:43] Steve: Mhm. I can sense that already happening in my mind. Okay. So, so okay, instead of saying how many plugins, let's go with what kind of processing do you need on a vocal? What are the categories
[03:43] Chris: or categories
[03:43] Steve: of? Yeah. Because we did an episode on what we do on our own
[03:43] Chris: our chain.
Fix first: clip gain, pitch, noise cleanup (before any ‘vibe’ plugins)
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[04:04] Steve: Chain. Okay.
[04:04] Chris: Yeah.
[04:04] Steve: But let's go more general.
[04:04] Chris: Okay. Um what what is the first general category on yours? I would say dynamics.
[04:04] Steve: Okay, let's let's assume we've done some clip gain.
[04:04] Chris: Okay, because that would be my first move.
[04:04] Steve: That is always the first move.
[04:04] Chris: Yeah.
[04:04] Steve: Get you in the ballpark.
[04:26] Chris: Make the little tiny turds.
[04:26] Steve: Or that could that could translate on a plugin like Vocal Rider.
[04:26] Chris: Yes.
[04:26] Steve: Or Level something. There's another plugin company called
[04:26] Chris: Yes. But I think all the DAWs now allow you to just
[04:26] Steve: clip gaining this way. Make all your turds a similar size
[04:26] Chris: is the way I think of it in my mind. Um, okay.
[04:47] Steve: So, so then then what's first for you?
[04:47] Chris: Tone.
[04:47] Steve: Okay.
[04:47] Chris: So, tone could mean could mean several things.
[04:47] Steve: Mhm.
[04:47] Chris: Could mean EQ.
[04:47] Steve: Mhm.
[04:47] Chris: Could mean a channel strip like a console emulation.
[04:47] Steve: Yeah. Let's
[04:47] Chris: plug. So, that's tone, you know, that's harmonics that could translate into some light
[04:47] Steve: color,
[04:47] Chris: you know.
[05:12] Steve: So I would start with that
[05:12] Chris: as that could be a category. Correction could be another category.
[05:12] Steve: Yeah, I'm correction first
[05:12] Chris: and dynamic range could be a category and enhancement could be a category. So I don't know. I'm just like thinking out loud.
[05:12] Steve: Sure.
[05:12] Chris: Nothing prepared.
[05:12] Steve: Yep. Uh all right. So we're cleaning our sound.
[05:30] Chris: We're EQing our sound. We're compressing controlling the volume of our sound.
[05:30] Steve: Okay. Let But
[05:30] Chris: and then we've got effects. But yeah, but you said something though. Fix. Yeah,
[05:30] Steve: let's start with fix.
[05:30] Chris: Yeah, fix is a big one. I typically fix first.
[05:30] Steve: That's usually my first like in my template.
[05:48] Chris: My first grade out things are typically corrective. Uh like that includes for me pitch.
[05:48] Steve: Okay,
[05:48] Chris: so I have I have you know melodine and or autotunes sitting there grayed out. If I'm like, "Oh my god, this is let's let's fix this note so I can think or whatever." I pop that on and that just allows me to think about everything else because if it's horribly out of tune or time or whatever.
[06:07] Steve: So
[06:07] Chris: if if you're in Cubase very audio, no need to plug in.
[06:07] Steve: Yeah. Or if there's a
[06:07] Chris: just just saying.
[06:07] Steve: Sure. But you're also on Cubase then. So that's something good.
[06:07] Chris: I guess I got to know my audience. Yeah, it's something good.
[06:07] Steve: They have my back.
[06:07] Chris: What? Yeah. What Selim said is right.
[06:07] Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Except Jesper.
[06:30] Chris: Jesper. You Jasper. Uh uh uh uh uh. So how about um something like an izotope? So you got you got some tracks and there's a bunch of room noise or there's there's buses rumbling by on what you've been asked to mix. Where does that go for you? Is that in your chain or is that like a clip for me? It's a clip based.
[06:30] Steve: Yeah, it's it's at first.
[06:52] Chris: Yeah, it's a clip thing. It's not a plugin.
[06:52] Steve: It's a clip thing. Same here.
[06:52] Chris: So I'll get my I'll get my And that's to me is the same as
[06:52] Steve: like for me it's like clip gains like
[06:52] Chris: Exactly. Get my get my turds get my turds clean and level
[06:52] Steve: even visually.
[06:52] Chris: Yeah.
[06:52] Steve: And then I can work with them.
[06:52] Chris: All right. So, corrective stuff then.
Corrective EQ before compression (HP/LP, de-ess, remove ‘twitchy’ frequencies)
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[07:07] Steve: And then uh are you EQ first or dynamics first?
[07:07] Chris: I do EQ first. Corrective EQ first.
[07:07] Steve: Okay.
[07:07] Chris: And because I don't want that like civilian or muddiness to affect
[07:07] Steve: correct
[07:07] Chris: the way the compressor is going to react.
[07:07] Steve: Correct.
[07:07] Chris: On the first run of compression. Yes. So, I'm going to correct first. Yep.
[07:30] Steve: So, that means dsing
[07:30] Chris: if I'm dealing with a lot of S's. Okay.
[07:30] Steve: Exactly. Yeah. High pass. For sure.
[07:30] Chris: For Yeah, for sure. That's one of the first I actually use the the highp pass and low pass filters straight from the channel in Cubase. Not even plug right there. Across the board. Because that affects your compressor a lot.
[07:49] Steve: A big time.
[07:49] Chris: The stuff you can't hear, but your compressor is doing this.
[07:49] Steve: Yeah.
[07:49] Chris: Totally.
[07:49] Steve: Even between words, it's doing a thing.
[07:49] Chris: Totally.
[07:49] Steve: That's that that's the train.
[07:49] Chris: Yeah. Two blocks away right there. Yeah. Uh, okay. Uh, other corrective DS.
[07:49] Steve: Yeah, DS EQ usually.
[07:49] Chris: And do you do any tonal EQ there?
[07:49] Steve: This is where I'm going to, like I said earlier, um, it's mainly like a console EQ or something like a console uh, channel strip
[07:49] Chris: that is going to and that could be my first
[07:49] Steve: Yes.
[08:20] Chris: run at EQ.
[08:20] Steve: Same.
[08:20] Chris: To fix a few things.
[08:20] Steve: I just go, man, there's a whole lot of 200 in this vocal. And I'm going to just turn that knob down, you know,
[08:20] Chris: cuz that's affecting my compressor and my mental health.
[08:20] Steve: Yeah, exactly.
[08:20] Chris: Let's get thatish where it should sound.
[08:20] Steve: Yeah.
[08:20] Chris: But I'm not doing a lot. Yeah.
[08:36] Steve: Later we get to like, you know, the air band and all that. This is just the stuff that just makes you twitch.
[08:36] Chris: Exactly. Exactly. The first run at EQ, you know, make sure like, you know,
[08:36] Steve: fix it up right now. Right now before you hit compressor.
[08:36] Chris: And just cuz we're here and it's a new year.
[08:51] Steve: What is your first run EQ right there these days?
[08:51] Chris: These days. Uh the Yeah,
[08:51] Steve: I can't even remember what we said on the last one, so it's kind of new.
[08:51] Chris: Yeah, for a vocal usually even if I have the channel strip on,
[08:51] Steve: uh I'm going to reach like frequency or the uh the ProQ for basically. Yeah. Something clean.
[08:51] Chris: Yeah.
[08:51] Steve: Transparent. Yeah.
[09:11] Chris: That I can just like do narrow cuts if I need to. And just like to correct stuff and
[09:11] Steve: do some cutting.
[09:11] Chris: And I'm not above it. I'm a huge fan of I can see it.
[09:11] Steve: Yes.
[09:11] Chris: I hear a big in there and like, oh, there it is. Like
[09:11] Steve: it does help.
[09:11] Chris: I'm not above that.
[09:11] Steve: It does. No, same.
[09:11] Chris: I can see the big humpy hoo and I make it smaller.
[09:27] Steve: I'm not ashamed.
[09:27] Chris: It's amazing. It is.
[09:27] Steve: And it's right.
[09:27] Chris: It's there.
[09:27] Steve: It's almost like it's on the channel and analyzing the sound.
[09:27] Chris: Exactly.
[09:27] Steve: And allows you to alter that.
[09:27] Chris: Yes. It's a thing.
[09:27] Steve: Okay. So, now you're hitting your coco compressor.
[09:27] Chris: Yeah.
[09:27] Steve: What's your first compression thought?
[09:27] Chris: My first compression thought uh Okay.
Compression strategy: tame peaks first, then level the performance
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[09:44] Steve: For years and that can be switched, but in a usually I'm going to go with like peaks.
[09:44] Chris: Okay.
[09:44] Steve: Try to control the peaks. And how how how much is your thing moving?
[09:44] Chris: Depends. It depends on the vocal. Like and I'm talking about like the little peaks. Could be a couple of dbs, could be 3 dBs.
[10:01] Steve: Like just like taming those peaks down.
[10:01] Chris: And are you you moving slow or you moving fast?
[10:01] Steve: You're moving fast.
[10:01] Chris: Fast attack, fast release. So it's 1176.
[10:01] Steve: A light fast. Get the peaks.
[10:01] Chris: Yeah. 1176 type of thing, you know,
[10:01] Steve: uh could do the trick. Yep.
[10:01] Chris: Okay. You catch up the the peaks right away.
[10:01] Steve: Okay. So now your vocal is clean.
[10:19] Chris: It's there's nothing EQ-wise annoying in it and your peaks are under control.
[10:19] Steve: Yeah. And the peaks like that compressor is not going to move that much if I do a lot of work.
[10:19] Chris: Correct.
[10:19] Steve: Clip ging stuff
[10:19] Chris: before getting your little turds under control.
[10:19] Steve: Affects that whole compression.
[10:19] Chris: Yep.
[10:19] Steve: thing, you know, and we talked about that anyways. But yeah, it does. Yeah.
[10:38] Chris: So, that would be my first run. But but I could switch that and go with something a bit more slow
[10:38] Steve: depending on
[10:38] Chris: depending on the style on the vocal
[10:38] Steve: the vocal of course if it's too dynamics
[10:38] Chris: you got to unmute the track.
[10:38] Steve: So
[10:38] Chris: unmute the track and make some decisions. It's huge.
[10:38] Steve: Totally.
[10:58] Chris: So I could go with like a more kind of a broad compression approach.
[10:58] Steve: Yeah.
[10:58] Chris: Okay. To level up the whole thing, do the whole performance together.
[10:58] Steve: Uh with something slower like this guy. Yeah.
[10:58] Chris: Okay. Um, which is a A41B. I'm gonna have gonna have it right this time. Yeah,
[10:58] Steve: that's good. Yourself. There you
[10:58] Chris: clone or it's not a clone, but it's based on the CL1B
[10:58] Steve: flavor. CL1B flavor.
[11:23] Chris: Flavor. Yeah.
[11:23] Steve: Unique flavor.
[11:23] Chris: It has a unique flavor and I love that flavor for this type of compression.
[11:23] Steve: Yeah.
[11:23] Chris: Uh, but yeah. So, this type of compression like the Lray or the L2A, you know, so
[11:23] Steve: Yep.
[11:23] Chris: Um, tube type of approach. So that so I could that first too. Okay. So at this point we based on our our plug-in number the the question that started this.
[11:47] Steve: We don't have a huge count. We've just done some work but we're not we're not messing with like the radio ready quality of the vocal yet.
[11:47] Chris: No,
[11:47] Steve: we're still in just
[11:47] Chris: Yeah. So
[11:47] Steve: eating it on the field to play the game.
[11:47] Chris: You could like with three plugins at this point.
[11:47] Steve: One DSer, one EQ, one compressor.
[12:03] Chris: There you go. So you have three plugins. So now you have a kind of tameish vocal that we can now start to play with because to me that's the that's the way I kind of think right is let's get this guy like suited up and on the field and ready to play and now he looks like the team and he's he's in the ballpark.
[12:17] Steve: He's not doing his own thing. And a lot of times it's amazing I
[12:17] Chris: if if for me, you know, I'll start mixing, I'll get the the band sounding decent or what, however order I'm working for that mix and I put the vocal on and it just sounds awful.
[12:17] Steve: Like the vocal will sound not great. like it's just the wrong everything.
[12:35] Chris: And once you kind of do these steps, it immediately starts to
[12:35] Steve: to like if you let somebody hear that, it would just be bad
[12:35] Chris: cuz they're in a different room and in a different everything. Totally.
[12:35] Steve: And so this is the first like starting to photoshop them and
[12:35] Chris: make them look pretty, right?
[12:35] Steve: And so, okay, so now now where do we go? Do you start thinking where in this journey do you start thinking about sending off to effects and things or are you still just vocal? But then I I'm I'm still going to stay in the the dynamic
[13:04] Chris: the dynamic range
[13:04] Steve: Yeah.
[13:04] Chris: world.
[13:04] Steve: Yeah.
[13:04] Chris: So if I have my first compressor taming the peaks, now I'm going to think about a more kind of a general broader
[13:04] Steve: slower compressor like we I just mentioned, that could be my second compression
[13:04] Chris: going on.
[13:04] Steve: Okay. So that is going to literally bring the the level, the dynamics to place,
[13:04] Chris: make that vocal sit well.
[13:27] Steve: Yeah.
[13:27] Chris: And ready to go. Yeah. And and are they the the same? Are they different flavors?
[13:27] Steve: Different flavors.
[13:27] Chris: Yeah. Like, you know, for peaks could go with a fast
[13:27] Steve: Yeah.
[13:27] Chris: It could be like a clean a clean stuck plugin.
[13:27] Steve: Yeah.
[13:27] Chris: Stuck compressor going to do the trick. Super fast attack, fast release.
[13:45] Steve: Uh but for a more kind of vintage type of uh approach, 1176 is good for that uh that matter. Uh and on the slower side, you know,
[13:45] Chris: um L2A uh this CL1B flavor type of thing. Lray, you know that those could bring the that kind of broader leveling type of uh
[13:45] Steve: C2.
[13:45] Chris: Yeah,
[13:45] Steve: C2 and Opto like that.
[13:45] Chris: C2 and great.
[13:45] Steve: For sure.
[14:11] Chris: For sure. Even the uh was it the not the vintage but the uh the tube compressor in Cubase has that approach too if you're a Cubase user. Um Yeah. So,
[14:11] Steve: okay. So, now we're on the field and we're ready.
[14:11] Chris: Now I'm ready.
[14:11] Steve: Now we're Are you Are you circling back to EQ again?
[14:11] Chris: Yes.
[14:11] Steve: Yeah. Same. Same. Yeah. Now it's like, okay, let's add
[14:11] Chris: the sound.
Post-compression EQ + dynamic EQ + extra de-essing (where ‘radio’ starts)
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[14:30] Steve: Compression does affect the tone.
[14:30] Chris: It does.
[14:30] Steve: Could be in a good way.
[14:30] Chris: Yeah. And and once it's under control, the EQ just sounds different. Yes.
[14:30] Steve: If I put 3K on a raw vocal up here, it's different than 3K on a controlled vocal. Yes.
[14:30] Chris: Down here. Very, very interesting. Totally. How different.
[14:50] Steve: And that was a later
[14:50] Chris: I think I was on week three
[14:50] Steve: cuz now you're still at four.
[14:50] Chris: I'm later four. Close. Yeah. close to five, but getting there. Somewhere around week three, I realized there's a thing with EQs in different places.
[14:50] Steve: Yeah, for sure.
[14:50] Chris: And it's neat to start EQing a a more tame vocal.
[15:08] Steve: There's something about that that just And that to me is where the radio thing starts happening to my mind. I can start pushing things
[15:08] Chris: harder
[15:08] Steve: than I could earlier.
[15:08] Chris: So, what do you work then? What do you work with like as far as EQ goes when it comes to like after that control?
[15:08] Steve: Right in there.
[15:08] Chris: Yeah. Oh, I'm
[15:08] Steve: right after the compressors.
[15:25] Chris: I'm typically for me currently I'm I'm back to another ProQ like I really am and because a lot of times I I'll have it open in my thing and I'm watching
[15:25] Steve: I can watch it change.
[15:25] Chris: Yeah.
[15:25] Steve: And I can see where now my battles moved as these compressors are doing a thing. And so yeah, I' I've I've really started playing a lot with the metering on there.
[15:50] Chris: Uh the the freeze metering is cool because I can start to see where my problems are
[15:50] Steve: and and start fighting that battle right there even. And with the dynamic EQ piece, sometimes I'll get that battle going.
[15:50] Chris: Yes.
[15:50] Steve: Right there at that point. Cuz that and and especially, you know, like like you know, you got a a beautiful female vocal and she's getting brighter in the chorus,
[15:50] Chris: but I don't want to
[15:50] Steve: I want to but I want that brightness in the verse or whatever.
[16:12] Chris: So I'll start playing with that dynamic piece right then. And so that then does another like kind of levels it onto the field for me.
[16:12] Steve: Cool. Nice.
[16:12] Chris: You
[16:12] Steve: Yeah. Uh me depends. It depends what what I need. Like if I need to to control more resonances and stuff like the ProQ4 with that little resonance suppressor or sooth and stuff like that.
[16:32] Chris: Tools like that is going to be very useful after compression. Um sometimes I need the second DSER,
[16:32] Steve: you know, and that will happen maybe at the end of the chain. Y
[16:32] Chris: just a second round of DSing. uh smooth things up. Uh sometimes not going to be at the same range.
[16:32] Steve: Okay. Could be different approach
[16:32] Chris: and sometimes even a different DSer.
[16:51] Steve: I have three DSer products in my chain.
[16:51] Chris: There you go. So, you know,
[16:51] Steve: in three different places.
[16:51] Chris: So, uh yeah, whatever it takes. And yeah, like as as far as EQ goes, I like to enhance. So, my my thought is more of an enhancement uh approach. So, something like a Ptech.
[17:11] Steve: So, this is so this is my question. Are you in full-blown enhancement mode yet or are you still semi-corrective? Cuz I'm still semi-corrective at this point.
[17:11] Chris: It's it's semi. Yeah, it's semi cuz I'm still thinking about enhancement. But at the same time, if I need to correct stuff, it's time now. We're not into like error band and that like super like enhancy stuff.
[17:30] Steve: I'll do that stuff in parallel afterwards.
[17:30] Chris: Yep.
[17:30] Steve: Exactly. So that's a later thought. So, okay. So, we're not there yet for you either. Okay. I'm still in like
[17:30] Chris: But after this point though, once I'm done with my second round of EQing,
[17:30] Steve: yeah,
[17:30] Chris: I'm going to add the reverbs and all that stuff afterwards. Exactly.
Routing & effects philosophy (inserts vs sends, Cubase vs Pro Tools banter)
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[17:47] Steve: This is what like
[17:47] Chris: So for me,
[17:47] Steve: I'm going to go towards
[17:47] Chris: And I think you have more you have a bunch you have more plug-in slots I think in Cubase
[17:47] Steve: 16.
[17:47] Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
[17:47] Steve: And I don't
[17:47] Chris: No.
[17:47] Steve: So for me
[17:47] Chris: cuz cuz you don't because
[17:47] Steve: Oh, cuz just cuz
[17:47] Chris: you're not on
[17:47] Steve: I don't know. Oh, I just we like cleaner interfaces. We like simpler.
[18:08] Chris: We don't like the convoluted complex,
[18:08] Steve: you know, useful features things. Yeah. Yeah. We like our stuff simple. Yeah. Very simple. Very
[18:08] Chris: sure
[18:08] Steve: very plain.
[18:08] Chris: Hey, if you're
[18:08] Steve: very simple.
[18:08] Chris: If you're happy with that, man.
[18:08] Steve: Simple thoughts. We We work in small chunks.
[18:08] Chris: It's good that she's trying to convince herself.
[18:27] Steve: Thank you.
[18:27] Chris: I don't know if I've done it.
[18:27] Steve: Whatever works, man.
[18:27] Chris: That's all I've got. Leave me alone. For some unknown reason at year like 40 of ProTools. They still didn't figure that out. Still doesn't have more inserts available in this year of our Lord 2026 here.
[18:51] Steve: We still have the same number we had in 1991. But I feel good about it. I have no problem with it. Take my subscription money.
[18:51] Chris: Yes. and my eyelock key that I have to carry around because the cloud thing never anyway this is another episode. So my second set of inserts intentionally purchased at a high price then is my more enhancy stuff which then goes to my
[18:51] Steve: all the effects
[18:51] Chris: the effects and stuff.
[19:24] Steve: Cool.
[19:24] Chris: The other reason I'm sure you have some great Q-base solution to this. Of course I do. Is that all those sends are also available on the first set. So I can send them this way or I can send them more hyped up from the second set of
[19:24] Steve: limited number of inserts.
[19:24] Chris: Yeah.
[19:24] Steve: Why would you do that?
[19:24] Chris: Leave me alone.
[19:55] Steve: This is my ProTools. This is what I know since I was a young lad. It's my ProTools. I love ProTools. I hope you do.
[19:55] Chris: I do. Digi design ProTools. I still know it in my heart.
[19:55] Steve: So, you're into your effects now. So, okay. So, let's get back to the initial question then.
[19:55] Chris: Yeah.
How many plugins do you *need*? The real answer + wrap-up
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[20:26] Steve: How many plugins we need on a vocal train?
[20:26] Chris: All of them.
[20:26] Steve: As many as we have. I
[20:26] Chris: But it's mainly the same thing.
[20:26] Steve: Need, want, use. It's a weird question, man. Like Like if we just pause on that question for a minute. Like you you look at some of the greatest mixes in history
[20:26] Chris: and they had like some knobs.
[20:26] Steve: Yeah.
[20:50] Chris: And that was it, you know,
[20:50] Steve: and that was it. And then you look at some modern productions.
[20:50] Chris: And there's there's whatever you have 16.
[20:50] Steve: Yeah.
[20:50] Chris: You need Cubase to do it.
[20:50] Steve: Yeah. And then we have a second channel for an extra 16,
[20:50] Chris: right?
[20:50] Steve: That we can do like you do with eight.
[20:50] Chris: That's right.
[20:50] Steve: So we have a total of 32 at this point.
[21:08] Chris: 10. But no, it's uh Yeah. How many do you need? Does is it a track? Is it a style question? Is it a genre question? No, but the thing I don't think it's the amount of plugin that counts. It's what you want to achieve basically. And sometimes a plugin doesn't do a lot.
[21:08] Steve: So that could be misleading.
[21:08] Chris: Okay.
[21:31] Steve: It's like it's not that that I need like 12 plugins on a vocal chain, you know. But sometimes that one plugin does nothing, just the tone. For example, when I told you that I want to uh I start to to use some um console emulation plugins like channel strips really early in my chain.
[21:31] Chris: Okay. just because I, you know, just want to get that vibe and sometimes they just do, they just sit there, you know, maybe sometimes bit of EQ and stuff. It's pretty minimum.
[21:57] Steve: Yeah. What I do with these plugins.
[21:57] Chris: Uh, and then it's the same for tape, a tape saturation plugin. I could have that also. Um, not on all mixes, but could be cool to have it early in the chain also.
[21:57] Steve: Yep.
[21:57] Chris: Doesn't do a lot of things. uh you're you're like ProQ4 if you use it only to tame the uh some resonances on the high mids.
[22:19] Steve: Yeah.
[22:19] Chris: On that one last line of the chorus, you know,
[22:19] Steve: you just add some automation there. It it just does that little thing.
[22:19] Chris: It takes a slot, you know, but it so like the amount of plugins is kind of Yeah. in my case misleading. Uh yeah, like these big dense mixes, I'll have just the prochial.
[22:44] Steve: I'll have five of them in the in the thing. It's just doing different things, different things, tiny things.
[22:44] Chris: And I've also learned somewhere on week two, between two and three,
[22:44] Steve: I think it was one and a half,
[22:44] Chris: that when you change something in a in an EQ, it affects the rest of the thing.
[22:44] Steve: Yes.
[23:05] Chris: So if I'm pulling down 200 and adding 1k, there's a relational thing there
[23:05] Steve: that's different than if I pull down that and then later add the 2K, right? Like they it's a different conversation.
[23:05] Chris: Sure.
[23:05] Steve: Across the thing.
[23:05] Chris: And so it is cuz
[23:05] Steve: that's one plugin theoretically. Yeah. My all my pros are
[23:05] Chris: No, for sure.
[23:26] Steve: And you could on paper do everything with one plugin. Like I could do everything with one compressor.
[23:26] Chris: Yeah. But sometimes there's a thing on using several compressors to achieve the same result
[23:26] Steve: which is going to give you completely different different vibe and maybe work things better.
[23:26] Chris: Yeah.
[23:26] Steve: Also by being a bit more transparent, you know,
[23:26] Chris: um
[23:26] Steve: and EQ too.
[23:46] Chris: And same.
[23:46] Steve: Some guys do highend better and some kids do low-end better.
[23:46] Chris: Yeah.
[23:46] Steve: Between different manufacturers in my opinion. Ex.
[23:46] Chris: Yes. Totally.
[23:46] Steve: And and that's there's something to that. Could you have done it with one?
[23:46] Chris: You could. If you had a console,
[23:46] Steve: would you have gotten through the war? 100%.
[24:01] Chris: And and if you sat down at a console and only had the console and the same stems, how close would your mix sound at the end of the day?
[24:01] Steve: Like, would my mom notice the difference between your your 16 channels slot thing and and and the console? Like,
[24:01] Chris: I don't know, right? Like,
[24:01] Steve: so again, they there's no right answer.
[24:24] Chris: There's no wrong answer, I think. But you said something that triggered the thought. It's it's knowing what you're trying to achieve.
[24:24] Steve: It's always Yeah, it's always
[24:24] Chris: the thing
[24:24] Steve: and like we talked about last I think it was last week that we're not just throwing things on trying to make solve the we're not trying to throw stuff on until it becomes a radio hit.
[24:44] Chris: Yeah, exactly.
[24:44] Steve: We're throwing stuff on because we're trying to do something to the sound that we're hearing. Right. So, it's it's an artistic choice, not some secret sauce. If I put more plugins on, it gets better.
[24:44] Chris: No, it could make things worse. Actually,
[24:44] Steve: historically, yes.
[24:44] Chris: Yeah.
[24:44] Steve: And that is an early mixing
[24:44] Chris: mistake.
[25:04] Steve: Overdoing it is a thing.
[25:04] Chris: Many people that's it. You just throw all your new stuff on there.
[25:04] Steve: It's like an overspice spaghetti sauce.
[25:04] Chris: Yeah.
[25:04] Steve: You know, you
[25:04] Chris: Yeah,
[25:04] Steve: there's a You know, it's a thing. Hey, just to have like a meal that is too salty.
[25:04] Chris: Oh, yeah. Salt is awesome, but if it's too much,
[25:04] Steve: it's tiring after a few bites.
[25:24] Chris: Yes.
[25:24] Steve: Yes.
[25:24] Chris: As opposed to good pure food.
[25:24] Steve: So, same goes with mixing. So, I I would like land that plane saying that when it comes to processing, just think of it of
[25:24] Chris: Cubase. That's it. That's Man, you stole my words, man. No, but like you need EQ.
[25:24] Steve: Yeah.
[25:24] Chris: You need compression.
[25:24] Steve: Yeah.
[25:24] Chris: You need uh and compression like DSing is compression. Okay.
[25:58] Steve: So, it's all dynamic.
[25:58] Chris: Yes.
[25:58] Steve: Processing. Uh and EQ corrective enhancement.
[25:58] Chris: Um and same for compressions. It's like control
[25:58] Steve: and movement.
[25:58] Chris: Mhm.
[25:58] Steve: And then you have like what else?
[25:58] Chris: Well, then there's the whole Yeah. saturation for more color, more clarity maybe, like you know,
[25:58] Steve: it's an effect.
[25:58] Chris: It's an effect in my mind, you know.
[26:19] Steve: And then goes the space delays and reverbs and stuff.
[26:19] Chris: Parallel stuff and like that's a whole another thing.
[26:19] Steve: But it all come it all comes down to the same type of processing but blended in different ways.
[26:19] Chris: Yes. In different orders or duplicated, you know.
[26:19] Steve: Yes. Or different amounts.
[26:19] Chris: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah.
[26:40] Steve: So, that that's Basically it for vocals.
[26:40] Chris: Yeah.
[26:40] Steve: Correct it, enhance it, control it, make it sit good, you know,
[26:40] Chris: slap it and send it out to the world.
[26:40] Steve: There you go, man. That's it.
[26:40] Chris: With a ping- pong delay bouncing all over the place, please.
[26:40] Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
[26:40] Chris: I Yeah, I don't think there's more there.
[26:40] Steve: No, there's a lot more.
[27:04] Chris: There's million hours more,
[27:04] Steve: but to that question
[27:04] Chris: to that question, that sums it up pretty well.
[27:04] Steve: Yep.
[27:04] Chris: Yeah. I don't know if it's pretty well, but
[27:04] Steve: it's it sums us up.
[27:04] Chris: it's it sums us up.
[27:04] Steve: It's it's what we did.