Studio Stuff Podcast — Episode #33
(00:03) Mr. Dierkens, Mr. Selim, how's it going? It's good. I I was just thinking about what to talk about when we started and I'm pushing my glasses up because here's what happened. Do you ever have those moments where you're like, I I'm too stupid to have children or something? Like I like I say that out loud sometimes.
(00:25) I'm like, I'm just too stupid to be walking around sucking up oxygen. I I I went for my eye my >> Where are you going with this man? >> My eye Yeah, [laughter] there's a lot of directions this could go right now. I like I like it's not going to go where you think. I got my annual eye exam yesterday. >> Okay. No, it's not going.
(00:42) See see this is good. And and and I'm I'm in there and like she did the thing and I'm I'm good. And I handed her my glasses at one point to try on like the new styles or whatever. Um, you know, as George as George Castanza said, you know, I'm I'm choosing a new face here. Give [laughter] me a minute. >> So, I'm I'm choosing my new face, which will appear in a couple weeks, I imagine, on the podcast. Very excited.
(01:04) I know you are. >> Oh, yeah. Thrilling. >> I I can tell. >> And and and she she's looking at my glasses and I had ordered on Amazon these little hooks to go on the back because they kept sliding. >> Okay. So, you're there now. >> Yeah, these little hooks. And I'm like, "Oh, cool." Cuz I, you know, I tried the little pad things. They didn't work.
(01:21) So, these little hooks. I was like, "Cool, Amazon for the win." It was like a dollar. She t she's like, "What are these hooks?" I'm like, "They're little hooks cuz they keep sliding off." She's like, >> "You know we can fix that, right?" And I was like, "You what now?" >> Of course they can. >> She's like, "I just hand them to my thing and they come back and they just bend the little thing and they just stay on your face.
(01:41) " And I was like, >> I said it out loud. I go, "I'm too stupid [laughter] to be sucking up oxygen on this planet." Who? Who? I'm sorry, Mom, but who made me? Oh man. >> So that was it. That was my revelation from yesterday as a as a guy. I've only worn glasses for a year, whatever. And I didn't know that. >> I just I did what I do in my life.
(02:00) I solved the problem my darn self with Amazon. >> That's what you do. >> I have to say that I do respect you more that [laughter] you shared this story. >> Just the fact that you were like >> courageous enough to tell the world. >> I felt the courage >> how stupid you are. [laughter] >> Come. It was so stupid. She just like came back and I was like, "Oh, thanks. It's all better.
(02:23) " >> Oh my gosh. >> I mean, so it leads me to like, "What else don't I know?" >> Do you know what I mean? >> Okay. Have you subscribed to the uh the podcast YouTube channel? >> Yeah, I know that much. Are you sure? >> Who doesn't know that? >> I don't know with the story you just told me. >> Who doesn't know that? [sighs] >> Maybe they don't know that.
(02:44) >> Oh, yeah. I think they don't. Anyways, some do. But a lot of them listening and watching the podcast on YouTube don't. >> And they should. >> They should. >> They need to. >> It's so easy. >> They want to. >> Okay. Maybe, you know, maybe they need this little tutorial. >> I can I just say that was one of our better pivots ever.
(03:04) >> I think it was so smooth >> that I took [laughter] I took I took my stupid glasses story and we turned it into a like and [laughter] subscribe. >> Hey, you know, we should do one day. We're going to do this for a living. >> This is what we do, man. Oh, >> in one day. >> This is what we did once.
(03:21) Don't say it like we do. This is what we did once. [laughter] Let's not let's not get crazy now. >> Maybe it's a new habit. I don't know. Maybe we'll be good at it. >> Oh, usually we just say we're going to pivot now. >> But you [laughter] know what? >> You know, you're talking about making a living.
(03:33) We're that close to being monetized on YouTube >> one day, >> you know, and just a few hours of views of extra views and we'll get our maybe >> we get our 20 cents >> a month. [sighs] >> It's amazing. >> It's a start. >> I could buy another thing on Amazon. [laughter] or go back to that lady, you know, >> which >> which is going to do it for free.
(03:52) >> Amazing. So, we pivoted into like it's which pivots us right into the fact that people need to submit questions and thoughts. >> Yeah, we love that. That that's the whole premise. We love answering questions, >> which then pivots us into our first one, which is our topic of the day. >> Oh, okay.
(04:10) I need to get ready cuz I think I was the one >> that pivot I >> pointed to. >> Yeah, we have a couple. We have a couple we're just going to knock through today. Okay, let's go with one from our good friend from MCC. >> Okay. >> All right. MCC, which is my VIP membership. Anyways, check it out. Link is down in pivot this episode. >> I told you, man.
(04:30) We're now professionals. >> Oh my god. >> Stephan Jison with an amazing question. Goes like this. >> Oh, it's Stefan. >> It's Stefan. >> I know Stefan. >> No, come on. All right. >> Makes good mixes. >> He [laughter] does good music, too. How do you pay attention during the mix to your dynamic range? Um, so so when you get to the mastering stage, you don't need to slam the limiter to get uh the desired loudness.
(04:56) Example, minus 10 minus 8 LUFS, but only limit by a couple of dBs or so. Okay, so the question is, I'm mixing. I've got 30 tracks on the go. At some point, I'm going to go down and look at my master, which is going to be doing a thing. How do we control that? >> During the mix. >> During the mix. So we're not because what happens is you start doing this to every channel.
(05:18) >> Everything adds up. Don't worry plugins >> until you look down there and the whole thing is like a nuclear >> explosion. Yeah. So >> or or vice versa. You look down there. Nothing's moving. >> Which is in my book not better. >> Yep. Both are bad. >> So I'm just going to remove my tea bag here. You love your tea.
(05:40) It's a good tea. >> This is nice. Yeah, we love drinking tea on the podcast. Okay, we do. >> There's really whiskey in there, isn't it? >> Don't tell anyone. [laughter] >> It's a bourbon tea. >> We could. It was like we You really could just get these little strings. >> Of course, >> and just tie it to your thing and then everybody's like, "Wow, what an upstanding.
(06:00) " >> And there's there's nothing, you know. >> No problem with that. At 10:00 a.m. He's drinking tea. >> Just Oh, funny. >> Drinking it fast. The last time I [laughter] flew to Ottawa with was with >> the Porter Airline, >> you know, it was it's fun because they they do offer you drinks. >> Yeah. >> Uh included for free.
(06:19) Cheapest cheapest uh ticket you can buy, which I did. >> And that includes wine. >> Yeah. >> So, I got wine at 7:00 a.m. that morning. >> It happens >> twice. Just because you could. >> For a 4-hour flight. >> Because you could. >> Of course. >> Why did you do that? Because I could. The the nice man asked me and I said, "Yep, >> why not? >> Why? I'm [laughter] on a I'm not driving.
(06:40) " >> Everyone was on coffee. I was on wine. >> I'm not driving. [laughter] If the worst imag emergency known [laughter] like if everybody on the plane passes out, I'm the only guy awake. I might have to drive, but it's statistically improbable. [laughter] Exactly. >> So, give me some wine. I like your logic is sound. This is good.
(06:58) >> I knew it. >> This is good. >> So, let's get back to the question. >> The question. Okay. So we we we're either stacking all our stuff and we're hitting the the the end too hard or we're hitting it too soft which then changes how your limiter and everything reacts which is all problematic. >> Yeah.
(07:14) According to the question, >> how do you do that? >> Is it really problemat problematic? >> Well, how how do you manage that as you're mixing? How do you keep your meters? >> Yeah, the first thing I do is good gain staging to begin with. Okay. So you get the gainstaging right on your individual tracks. Give give me a professorial two sentence gainstaging definition.
(07:34) >> Honestly, I made a bunch of videos on that. I even like come back videos. Just tell me then. >> I know you don't and you should. >> I don't have time. I'm busy learning how to mix. >> You would sound [laughter] better, man. >> Too busy learning how to mix to watch your videos. [laughter] >> Trust me, well, it's going to help.
(07:49) >> Oh god. I have heard your MCC improvement. >> Maybe I should watch. So gainstaging in a nutshell, you don't want to you just want to get good uh headroom on every track. Basically, >> you want your tracks not not way down here and not in the red. >> No, exactly. So they're kind of a a zone a kind of a safe zone between - 18 and -12 >> on your meters greens yellow, >> you know.
(08:13) And [snorts] uh so it's basically in a nutshell that's what it is. Okay. So you don't peak your channels, you don't uh >> uh and you get, you know, good headroom, not too quiet >> once that is done, cuz everything's going to add up. If you have like 30 tracks, 40 tracks, 50 tracks, it's going to add up.
(08:27) The more you're going to add plugins, >> um especially if you don't take care much about the um the gain structure of each channel, it's going to add up at the end and the mix bus is going to >> go right up, which is normal. And even without >> you know even without plugin you just accumul to to get to maybe uh >> a range between minus 6 minus 3 dBFS on the master bus.
(08:56) But honestly what's important is not to >> peak the master bus and that's it. Don't go above zero dBFS. >> If you are below that point you're good. Um, and if you think so, I don't know how quiet can you go, honestly, when you add everything up, unless all of your channels are gain staged at minus 25 or so uh, dbs.
(09:17) Maybe at that point, you'll get to a um, maybe you're going to end up at minus 15. >> Or even then, does it matter? I don't think it does. Uh, and even if you have to um add a limiter in the mastering stage and you have to boost that limiter up, I don't think it matters. Actually, you can even gain stage before even adding plugins while mastering gain stage or file, you know, just clip just add a bit of clip gain and that's it.
(09:41) Just to readjust that level, bring it up to minus six, whatever you know you're comfortable with and then start mastering. >> Yep. So, that's my thing. But during but to answer the question about what you do during the mastering during the mixing stage, um so aside from the gain staging part, I always keep an eye on my channel bus meters.
(10:01) >> Okay. So cuz I I do mix with a compressor on and sometimes even the limiter that I deactivate after. >> But this is something else. >> So yeah, I guess I guess yeah, you're you're saying which which was my first answer. Yeah, always clip gain, but every single track in my session goes to a bus. >> Mhm. >> Every one of them goes somewhere.
(10:20) So everyone goes to a drum bus or a bass or a guitar bus or a synth bus or a vocal bus or a background vocal bus. And then all those buses are typically how I control quickly. >> Yeah. So when everything gets loud, I can just grab all those buses as a group and just pull them all down at 5 dB. And so that's how I and then those goes to a music bus or a vocal bus.
(10:36) And then that's my next place. I can if those are hitting nicely, then I move those and then that dumps in. So >> that's a quick way to do it. >> So yeah, for me I'm always and those just sit kind of with everything and I can always just see those out of the corner of my eye and how they're cooking. >> I would rather do this than bringing down the level of the master bus.
(10:54) >> Exactly. >> I keep that at unity point always. >> Always. Always. always. Um, yeah. And so along the way, that's that's my constant adjustment. And sometimes it's it's fun to play with those. They're they're just naturally grouped as a fader. >> And so sometimes I'll just push them harder and softer and see how everything reacts.
(11:13) Cuz sometimes it's you push them into a spot where you go, "Ooh, >> rock and roll." >> Yeah. >> Oh, for sure. [laughter] Definitely. >> And that's exactly what I say. >> Exactly. When I'm alone with the same energy. >> Ooh, I'm alone in a room. And >> dude, man, >> I got my little Amazon glasses thing. Man, I don't want to be rude, but I think you need help.
(11:32) [laughter] You [laughter] You can't just say, "I don't want to be rude," and then say anything you want. I don't want to be rude, but you're the ugliest human I've ever [laughter] met. >> First, the glasses. >> Yeah. Now, this >> No. Get out of here. Get out of here. I'm I'm admitting my my my faults to the world.
(11:47) What are you doing? I know some of yours. I'm going to share some of yours next time. >> I just don't talk about them, man. [laughter] >> That doesn't make it better. I love it. I [laughter] love it. You got a you got a big plank in your eye there, buddy. >> I love it. >> So, yeah. So, so in a nutshell, if you want to land this plane >> Yep.
(12:03) >> Um, yeah, keep an eye on your mix bus while you're mixing. >> And if especially if you have a compressor on, make sure you get like if you're aiming for a 2dB of gain reduction on that compressor. Keep an eye on that compressor as you go because things are are going to add up, you know. >> And yeah, for me, I always have that open.
(12:18) >> Yeah, same here. >> It's always just on the corner. Always open. And that's kind of how I keep an eye on >> Yeah. on where >> again the level you end up on the mix [snorts] bus doesn't matter that much. >> That's it. That that that's that's one valid last point is minus3 versus minus4. >> That's what mastering is for. Yeah.
(12:35) >> You solve that problem later. >> Yep. [laughter] Exactly. >> All right. We have another question. >> Next one is coming from Joe in Rochester. >> Okay. Not Gilder. >> Not Gilder. >> Oh, it's too bad. >> Gilder's in Nashville and he's busy. He doesn't have time to talk to you. >> No, [laughter] I >> It's not Gilder.
(12:58) I did see Gilder a couple weeks ago at N. >> Lucky you. Now I'm jealous. >> He is a beautiful man. >> He's just a good freaking Hi, Joe. >> He's the best. >> Hi, Joe. He's just a good Say hi to everything. >> Say hi to Joe. >> Joe, I miss you, man. >> Yeah, >> I missed your I miss your voice. >> You weren't You weren't there, >> man.
(13:16) >> And and and we missed you. Look, look, I just pulled it up. That's a selfie of me and Joe. >> Oh, lucky you. >> That was my only selfie I took the whole >> And it was It was with Joe. >> It was with Joe. >> Oh. >> Um >> Joe, you don't realize how lucky you are. >> Mhm. [snorts] I had those things on my glasses at the time.
(13:35) [laughter] >> I don't know if he noticed, but they were like they were solid as a rock when I >> cent on Amazon. So Joe, not Gilder from uh Roh Rochester said um uh I would like your thoughts on what you do first before starting a mix when editing vocals. Is it better to time correct first then fix pitch or vice versa? And he he had some concern here about, you know, to keep artifacts down and and such.
(14:06) He's saying I he's saying I don't hear a difference whether I do which one first, but he was curious what we do first. Do you fix time or pitch first when you start editing a vocal track? >> That's a good question cuz honestly I never thought of that. >> I never asked myself that question. >> So which one do you use naturally? >> Naturally pitch correction.
(14:23) >> Okay. >> I edit after because I do pitch correction. I I record the vocals. >> Okay. >> Most of the time. >> Okay. >> And then I do the finetuning. >> What if somebody sends you a mix? >> Sends me a mix. >> Yeah. You solo the vocal or start doing your thing. >> I guess it depends. It depends on natural I would go for pitch correction.
(14:42) >> Whichever one's worse [laughter] maybe. >> Exact. No, I think so. I think that's a good reflex. >> Whichever one is bugging me more. If I'm going to be really distracted by the timing while I'm tuning, then I got to get that first. Yes. >> And they kind of go together a lot of times.
(14:57) If the timing is really bad, I'll just fix it while I'm tuning. >> Yeah. >> It's hard to let it go for me. But now that I think of it on a technical standpoint, >> for me it would be easier to do the pitch correction first as far as the file management goes and then I can slice stuff too. >> Okay. >> Rearrange the timing. >> Okay. >> Uh instead of cutting first, arrange the timing and then you know you're stuck with a bunch of events that you need to pitch correct after separately, you know.
(15:21) >> Yeah. >> So the the whole workflow would be easier with pitch correction first. But as far as the sound goes, I don't think it doesn't make >> I typically I because you I know you're you're different in Qbaseville, but for me I I pop me MelOdine onto as an ARRA track >> and then I use that to do both. >> Yeah, exactly.
(15:40) >> So I just get in there and I stretch words and fix timing and then do tuning and I just kind of I just kind of creep my way through the song >> if it sounds complete. >> Yeah. Cuz if I was to do the editing first, I would just bounce in place afterwards and just, you know, Yep. >> from that point do the uh pitch correction.
(15:55) >> Yeah. So I usually do do both on the same screen. >> Yeah. >> And as they just as they annoy me, I fix them. >> But point is Yeah. Whatever annoys you the most is what you're going to start. >> That's what I do. >> Makes sense. >> And so one of his thoughts though was artifacts and sonic integrity of that track.
(16:13) Is there anything there in your mind that >> It depends how you edit your track. Do you use like time sh like time shifting and stuff or you doing slices? >> Yeah. >> I'm a slice kind of guy, you know? I'm oldfashioned. >> Yeah. Um, wow. Oldfashioned talking about slices. We're we're 2026, man. Usually oldfashioned talking about slicer.
(16:34) We're talking about, you know, having a razor blade and taking I'm not even there. >> I [laughter] was in an Uber driving through California and Kear 101, which is the oldie station. I grew up on the old station. My mom listened to Kear my whole life. And you know, like I grew up and it's like the, you know, the Platters and the Temptations and Elvis on the old and and I'm in the Uber and Nirvana starts playing >> on the oldie station and I was like, >> like that's an oldie.
(16:58) >> I know. Like classic rock nirvana. >> Yeah. Like my my songs are now oldies. >> It's insane. >> Just like my moms were oldies when I was growing up. >> It's crazy. >> I play songs for my kids and those are oldies. >> Cuz I remember, you know, like uh was Shay 106 in Ottawa. Do you >> what 106? >> Shay 106. >> Oh man.
(17:15) >> I think that was the rock. It sound like he said a whole different word. [laughter] Sound like he said poop 107. >> I remember you know like uh was 106 in Ottawa. >> He drinking free wine over there. What's going on? See your cup over there. I don't know man. [laughter] >> Sorry. Go on.
(17:34) But yeah, it was like the classic rock station and back in the days you know when I was like a teenager in the 90s they were playing Led Zeppelin Zeppelin and you know the Beatles and stuff like that you know The Who. And now it's Collective Souls and Green Day. Great. >> Yeah. Like I'm like [laughter] whoa. >> Radio head, you know.
(17:50) It's like what? >> Yeah. It's on the oldie station. >> So anyways, >> go. Sorry. We were saying slices. So yeah, cuz he said, sorry, just to go back to our friend, not Gilder Joe >> about >> Yeah, cuz he said I've been using Barry audio for all my pitch correction, getting great results. So yeah, it I don't think it matters.
(18:07) >> I don't think it matters to you. >> Just get through the war. Yeah. >> Just fight your fight. And by the time by the time you put all the barbecue sauce and everything on that vocal track, like the timing and the pitch are going to be way more important >> than whatever little totally thing you add. >> It's a good >> making the performance better is better than any other >> little little side side effect.
(18:27) So >> doesn't matter. >> You want to do We got time. >> I think we have time for one
more. >> Let's do it. >> This is the first the first time in a podcast episode that we answered three questions. >> Wow. >> But I have to say we received a lot of questions. I feel I feel accomplished. >> Uh, okay. The >> I know so much more about that.
(18:43) I learned you have an educational channel. I learned that glasses and Amazon. >> Oh, man. Okay. Charles from Poop 10. Poop 106. Growing up. >> Poop 106. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Playing classic rock. >> Shall de morale. What about that? >> See, everything sounds like a nice wine. [laughter] When you say it, everything sounds like sounds like a wine.
(19:07) It's amazing. I find difficult to know exactly which part of the starting of a wave file or a wave design I must align to the grid when doing manual quantizing. >> Okay. Okay. >> Uh is it the transients? Sometimes the transient is a bit ahead of the peak on the attack of the wave. >> And he was asking this question because I remember I was asking about um converting MIDI to audio.
(19:34) >> Yeah. And at for some reason his starting point wasn't necessarily in sync. Yeah. So anyways, so for that just quickly before we jump in uh my win Qbase because I know you you work with Qbase uh Charles >> I use render in place when it when I do bounce my media to audio I always use render in place and it works >> perfectly. Okay.
(19:58) So >> and I think all the DAWs have >> Oh yeah >> around that. But no, when it comes to aligning >> the audio, >> the audio to the grid, if you need to do that, what do you >> Yeah. I mean, I guess my So, so his point I think he's making is if you've got if you got a wave that, you know, does this if it's if it's a snare drum, it starts big and then tails off.
(20:21) Some take a second, >> right? >> Yes. >> And so there's there's or kind of thing. So, you're what part of that little turd on your screen are you lining up to the >> to the beat on the grid? >> And that's a really good question. >> It is. >> And I have a really fast answer. >> Go ahead. >> Uh, every DAW has a version of tab to transients.
(20:43) >> Yes. >> So, I let in my case, I let ProTools do it. >> I just hit tab and it it tells me where it should go and it finds the loudest point, right? and I use that and 99% of the time it picks the right spot. It'll skip the the buildup and give me the part that because it hears what we're going to hear which is the thing that should be with the grid, >> right? And so, you know, like you know, you you get a drum loop a lot of times there's that like there's kind of these reverbby things and little shakery things, whatever, and letting it find
(21:11) the >> because I think it's going to matter most and it's going to show most on percussive type of instruments like drums, loops, and stuff like that, you know. And this is pretty easy to align with with the transient. >> So yeah, it's not you don't have to look for it. Just let the computer find it. Yeah. >> So it's always a version of find the transient in every DAW.
(21:28) >> And then in my case, I just I say make that go to the nearest thing and it's tick tick tick. I can do it real quick. Click click through. >> Exactly. >> And so that that's >> maybe the short answer >> because there's a little thing in Cubase also, you know, when you go into the uh the audio event edit window, >> you can actually change that.
(21:46) There's one by default that will show you where the transit starts, >> but that start point can be changed manually. >> Yeah, beat detective is our version of that. Shows you >> exactly >> it's up to you. Yeah, you can just flip through and double check those. >> But, you know, I would also just listen. >> And there is a bit of Yeah, as the as my base like to say, use your ears.
(22:05) >> Yeah. >> Yeah, [laughter] of course. >> What kind of car should I buy? Use your ears. >> Sorry. [laughter] >> Steak for dinner. >> Use your ears. >> Sorry. unknown angry guy on the internet. >> My wife doesn't get him when I tell her to you. [laughter] >> I don't want to sleep on the couch, man. [laughter] Tell me to use my ears one more time.
(22:28) Tell Tell a French lady to use her ears. [laughter] Oh god. >> You don't want to go there. Trust me. >> No. No wonder you're so kind. >> Tried that. Tried that once. >> Yeah, >> that was enough. [laughter] >> You're like, I'm too stupid to be alive. That's why I don't share those weird stories of yours. >> I just did.
(22:47) [laughter] >> Yours was worse. You told a French lady to use her ears. [laughter] >> So I guess yeah, there is there is a a feeling piece too. And sometimes Yeah. And I guess just to wrap this up, I guess there's maybe the three phases that pop into my head with the quantizing >> thing by ear.
(23:07) One is, you know, how how how does it look? So, this check the transients, move your
your beat points or hit points, and then let it do the thing. Two would be then, uh, a lot of times I got a loop or something, I'll just put it I'll solo it with the click. >> Yeah. >> And then I'll just kind of listen and see how the click if the click's getting buried nicely.
(23:23) But then you got to put it with something else because that'll sound perfect. And as soon as I unmute the drums with this loop, suddenly it feels ahead or behind or and then I go beep beep and move it a millisecond later and it suddenly just locks into the groove. Right. So, so I guess those would be the three moves. >> Yeah, this is the logic I use when I edit them.
(23:39) >> Yeah. That that gets you to to or a synth. Same thing. Like get it get it to the grid, get it to the click, and then put it with the drums. But a synth with the drums >> and sometimes it feels like it's angry and rushing. >> But yeah, my the point here is like don't be careful [snorts] not to like edit with your eyes more than your >> right >> ears. Yep.
(24:00) And so in my thing, onethird of it was eyes >> and the rest >> two/3s were >> Oh, my glasses moved. [music]